Got an email today from a fan of the site and some of his comments gave me an idea. How about a FAQ item for how to handle rundown? As many of you know, it's very easy to beat out a new RBI player in a rundown situation. Shit, I still have problems with it today. Here are some ideas, throw out some more:
1) Vary the time at which you throw the ball to the other base. Too many people throw immediately after getting the ball or when the runner is at the same spot on the basepath. Longtime opponents pick up on this and can adjust accordingly...
2) Keep moving to the base. Some folks (especially newbies) tend to stay at the base, especially after a rainbow throw.
3) The old "tap the B Button technique" - hit the opposite button so the runner thinks you are going to throw, which causes them to run back at the fielder with the ball.
4) Master the fast throw - seems basic but new users will tend to throw the rainbow too often.
What else? Do people have a perfect time or focal point to throw where they force the runner to slide?
If possible, move another position player half way b/w the two base where the rundown takes place.
Then when you master the fast throw, it is always low enough to cut off.
The runner is then screwed.
To me, #4 is the absolute key. A rainbow throw almost guarantees your opponent will reach either base safely.
I always try and force the runner back to the original bag just like you're supposed to in real baseball. Getting caught in a rundown fest is never good news. I tend to get taken out of my game if I allow myself to do the rundown thing. Instead of focusing on pitching an excellent game I try and win the rundown battle and things go to shit from there. The moral of the story here is to stay away from the rundowns and not to let your opponent change your game plan or get into your head.
Excellent point stock! You should have total control of another infielder and can move him into place while your fielder is running to the other base. This prevents any rundown from lasting forever, as the longer you go the more prone the fielder is going to make a mistake...
Quote from: fknmclane on 12/28/05, 02:25:25 PM
I always try and force the runner back to the original bag just like you're supposed to in real baseball. Getting caught in a rundown fest is never good news. I tend to get taken out of my game if I allow myself to do the rundown thing. Instead of focusing on pitching an excellent game I try and win the rundown battle and things go to shit from there. The moral of the story here is to stay away from the rundowns and not to let your opponent change your game plan or get into your head.
Excellent point mclane, the folks getting into the rundown should never do it on purpose, unless they really feel like they are in their opponent's head. The more times you do it, the better the odds for the fielder of getting an out. You get away with it once or twice, feel blessed and focus on playing..
What would people say the "elite" rundown percentage is? Like if two longtime players got into a rundown, what are the odds that they will get an out? I would say 75/25 in favor of getting out - as good as your rundown technique is, one guessed throw can result in a runner getting safely back. Though perhaps I'm just not skilled enough in a rundown...
I think the real strategy that should be discussed is how to prevent either runner from advancing on a 1st and 3rd scenario.
To this day, there are people I face that just cannot prevent me from taking the extra base when this happens.
You know, most folks around these parts don't try it anymore. I say master the original strategy and simply force the 3rd/home guy into a rundown. Don't focus on the 1st/2nd guy. Is this wrong? It's honestly been so long since people try it that there may be a better way. Shit, that can be question #2 of the FAQ...
Right. I never conceed 2nd unless I am positive that I get an out.
I always use the "down + A" technique to throw the ball toward 2nd.
If the runner gets too far off 3rd base, then I just cut it off and implement the "fast throw" to 3rd. Once said runner is in a rundown; game over.
Quote from: Gantry on 12/28/05, 02:29:48 PM
What would people say the "elite" rundown percentage is? Like if two longtime players got into a rundown, what are the odds that they will get an out? I would say 75/25 in favor of getting out - as good as your rundown technique is, one guessed throw can result in a runner getting safely back. Though perhaps I'm just not skilled enough in a rundown...
This really depends on who the runner in the run down is, for 144+ speed I'd say odds of an out are probably close to 75%, like you said, for slower runners, esp 130 and lower, it should be at 90%. Obviously in general you want to stay out of rundowns on offense.
Good point, ultimate. Speed obviously matters in a rundown. If Vince Coleman or Rock Raines are part of the equation, things can get a bit hairy and the rainbow throw absolutely guarantees the runner whatever he wants. Shit, I've been known to advance and attempt to advance again on a rainbow throw, starting up yet another rundown.
Stock, when I assume you're talking about guys on 1st and 3rd and double stealing, right? I will usually concede second base and simply run towards home. If I catch the guy on 3rd sleeping and already too close to 3rd the over the head throw to second is attempted.
Dammit I need to play RBI, it's probably been over a year now since I've played.
How about a rundown strategy guide if youre in a rundown?
RUN LIKE A BITCH, FOOL!!!!
QuoteStock, when I assume you're talking about guys on 1st and 3rd and double stealing, right? I will usually concede second base and simply run towards home. If I catch the guy on 3rd sleeping and already too close to 3rd the over the head throw to second is attempted.
So you don't throw to second right away on the double steal? Doesn't the time spent deciding at home cost you any chance of nabbing the runner going to second?
I feel the same way Ult, I need to start playing more. Single Vit and I have decided to start playing more video games, I think we both may train for the curve tourney. I honestly don't know a lot of these rundown questions, which is quite sad considering how long I've played. Almost hard to put into words at times, I just act on instinct and almost always get the guy...
Quote from: Gantry on 12/28/05, 03:18:39 PM
QuoteStock, when I assume you're talking about guys on 1st and 3rd and double stealing, right? I will usually concede second base and simply run towards home. If I catch the guy on 3rd sleeping and already too close to 3rd the over the head throw to second is attempted.
So you don't throw to second right away on the double steal? Doesn't the time spent deciding at home cost you any chance of nabbing the runner going to second?
Fuck, I just typed up this huge deal and had to erase the whole thing because I just realized I was thinking about this whole thing in a totally different context. I was talking about on a pickoff attempt, where you actually catch the guys off the base. My bad.
If a pitch is delivered and there is a double steal, 1st and 3rd, I throw to second. If it's a good throw and the runner is gonna be out and the guy on third is normal speed and doesn't have a huge lead, I'll take the out at second and try for the double play at home.
I hope that makes sense. Please disregard my previous posts in this thread as I was talking about picking guys off.
Quote from: Gantry on 12/28/05, 03:18:39 PM
I feel the same way Ult, I need to start playing more. Single Vit and I have decided to start playing more video games, I think we both may train for the curve tourney.
It sucks, I had a chance to play Beales about a month ago, but just couldn't make it the night he was playing, plus my brother in law temporarily has taken over my basement where the NES is set up
Mclane - Makes MUCH more sense now that I know your context...
We'll definitely have to get some Chicagoland area lemonparties mini-tournaments going in the next couple months for training purposes. I'd deifnitely like to join the big daddy tournament if I'm going to be playing some curve in the next couple months...
Isn't the COTUT already full?
Quote from: fknmclane on 12/28/05, 03:50:55 PM
Isn't the COTUT already full?
Yes, COTUT is full unless it gets expanded. I'd be up for any local mini-tournies, could possibly even host once my Brother in law moves out.
I think they are thinking about expanding it to 32 people if they get enough interest.
Well, upon consideration I might be too busy "hosting" the ugly stepchild version of dee-nee to really have the commitment to the COTUT. Perhaps if it's in the dee-nee house...
IF I make it to Chicago I'd obviously participate in any said tourney.
For this one:
2) Keep moving to the base. Some folks (especially newbies) tend to stay at the base, especially after a rainbow throw.
I'm a bit confused. Does this apply to the runner or the fielder? Gotta be the fielder, right? The important thing is to always close the gap on the runner and preferably keep that gap closer to the base the runner started on.
I don't want to hear this IF shit, you are going to be in Chicago. Don't be one of those sallypants "I'm afraid to fly" pussies...
Yeah the fielder. Lots of newbies forget to keep moving the runners, especially if the runner has gained a step on them. They tend to stay on the base and constantly do the immediate quick throw to the other fielder. Said technique is predictable and easy to time for the baserunner, giving them the advantage...
As soon as a baserunner knows when you are going to throw, they have the advantage. Assuming of course they haven't gained much of a gap on you...
I constantly get myself into run downs. One thing that Octo mastered, and Stock touched on, is getting another fielder into the middle of the run down. If you can do this, and have mastered the quick throw, you should be getting outs 100% of the time. The key for the runner is to get to a base before the third fielder becomes involved (generally within three throws).
The button fake is also brutal.
OK folks, the initial rundown page is up. Let me know how it looks, what needs to be added/removed etc. Even a simple post like "looks good" will suffice
http://dee-nee.com/wiki/index.php/Rundown
Well done, not much more to add I don't think. Perhaps a screen shot?
looks good