Dee-Nee Forums

Happy 48th to Alan Trammell:

http://dee-nee.com/wiki/index.php/Alan_Trammell

Discuss....   I think, that while he's clearly the best non-Raines leadoff hitter in the game, he is still a bit overrated.  If he batted 3rd, 4th, or even 2nd I don't think Trammell would get the same amount of praise.  Am I crazy? 

I wouldn't say he's overrated.  He is the second best leadoff hitter in the game (behind Rock, of course) and for that alone he should be highly regarded.  Having a stud up first is a huge boost.  However, he's not in the same league as Kimmy Gibler, Chili Davis or Reggie Jackson.

I see what you are saying mclane, but sometimes I feel like people put him on the same level as a Gibson, which is horribly wrong in my book.  I think, while a good player, the fact that there are so many shitty leadoff hitters in RBI makes him more than his actual ability...

He's great, not as great as Raines, but he's got it all. Power, speed, managerial skills.

Whoever said 3rd best leadoff man or below needs to post why.  I was thinking that a Coleman fan or two may opt for him over Raines...

He's huge for the leadoff the game, first pitch HR with no music

Excellent point, the Silent But Deadly is big for momentum.. 

He is second best among "computer selected" leadoff men for sure.
However, for people like me who leadoff with Mac, Armas, and Jones (sometimes), Trammell takes the spot as 5th best leadoff man.

You leadoff Mac and Armas? I say they have too much power to lead off---they need men on base

How old is Allen Trammel?

I voted second best behind Raines, although Coleman is one of my favourite players to use in the game.  I like to trying to hit the weak grounder to SS for an IF single...much more satisfying and skillful than a leadoff HR.

Quote from: Shooty Babitt on 02/21/06, 04:46:55 PM
I voted second best behind Raines, although Coleman is one of my favourite players to use in the game.  I like to trying to hit the weak grounder to SS for an IF single...much more satisfying and skillful than a leadoff HR.

I agree with Shooty - if you have the timing right, you can get a Pettis with Coleman (and Ozzie, if you fail with Coleman or he has stolen second) almost every time.

I've always liked Trammell - I'm a fan of the power/speed combo.

Quote from: BDawk on 02/21/06, 03:37:27 PM
You leadoff Mac and Armas? I say they have too much power to lead off---they need men on base

I leadoff with mac to maximize the number of abs he gets in a game.  If Am had any other decent PHs I would use them instead.  No point putting in a shitty molter, franco, or seitzer in the 1-hole.

Since the Armas/Burks combo must be used to get barret/bucknr out of the game, I use Armas first, since if he gets a single, burks is harder to double up.  If Burks gets a single, then Armas is almost a sure db unless he goes yard.
I always used to use Burks and then Armas, but it seems to work better the way I do it now.

Me thinks that Trammell is a stud lead off hitter.  Me also thinks that Trammell can hold his own in the Dt line up.  If he batted 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, I still believe he'd be a stud.  But I do think he's best suited to lead off the Dt line up.

Perhaps we're talking more of a function of straight/slurve vs. curve here (to address Gantry and McLane's points)...

Also, I think there's more value to compare Trammell to the R hitters of the game...not necessarily the lead off hitters.  Where do you fellers rank him amoug R batters?  I'm put him in the top 10% (roughly without serious research).

Also, BDawk--I believe Stock is right on point in the matter of Am lead off.  You have to to McGwire all the time.  Yeah, it does give him an AB or two more in a series, but for me, at least, the more important thing is that it allows Am to have a string of "tough outs" in the line up.  Seemingly, the best spot for a sub for McGwire would be the 6 hole...but if you do that, I can take my chances with a sub-par lead off hitter, take my chances with Donnie Baseball (if I have the match up advantage), and then IBB Bell and Canseco and then take my chances with Ripken.  It can backfire, but if I can get through that, next inning I IBB McGwire and let Brett, 8 and P get me through the inning.

But if you stick McGwire in the lead off spot, that fucks the whole thing up from the get-go.  I might as well pitch to McGwire because at the very least, there's nobody on base.  If I can get him out, I have a shot (at least if I have the match up with Donnie B)...but if McGwire gets on, Donnie B's value goes way up (even if I have the match up) because of the lefty hit...and then I still have to face Bell and Canseco...it's a potential disaster.  True, I tanked the bottom half of the line up to do this, but I'll just take a shit-ton of pitches and fight off as many pitches as I can with them and take my chances with the top of the order.

Dirt, that is some sound reasoning.  I've never batted the sluggers leadoff, although I'll definitely have to start doing that at least with Am.

And I see where Stock's coming from putting Armas ahead of Burks, but I think both of these players are so powerful that even with speed of 140, Burks still isn't fast enough to leg out the DP after a hard ground ball.  Plus it's very frustrating trying to score with a fast runner that has to wait for a slow-ass lead runner to cross the plate before he can advance past third...

Yes.  That is exactly why I still lead off with Burks and hit Armas 2nd...but like Octo said, I do like the thought process of Mr. Stock.

Our company regional VP played little league baseball with Alan Trammell in San Diego growing up. He told me some great stories about how they'd ride their bikes to the stadium, sneak in and access the locker room and get on the field hours before gametime. Alan was a pitcher at that time because of his strong arm.

Cool Story, Bro

And damn Trammell is about to turn 59, we are all getting old.

Also why did 7 voters think Alan was better than Raines?

Quote from: ultimate7 on 01/28/17, 06:36:54 PM
And damn Trammell is about to turn 59, we are all getting old.

Also why did 7 voters think Alan was better than Raines?

Because he's white

Trammell has a higher WAR than Raines so maybe that's it.  But Lou Whitaker had practically the same stats and WAR as Trammell and he gets zero consideration for the HOF.  Racist! 

Lou is close. . . .lacks the "wow" factor --- led the league in games one year.  Led the league in nothing else, ever.    Incredibly steady and likely over shadowed by peaks of other players.

I bet there are current HoF voters who'd have no clue who he was if asked about him.

Quote from: Shooty on 02/02/17, 06:29:09 PM
Trammell has a higher WAR than Raines so maybe that's it.  But Lou Whitaker had practically the same stats and WAR as Trammell and he gets zero consideration for the HOF.  Racist!

Is WAR based on position?  I know there were a ton of really light hitting SS in that era.

What about Ozzie Smith?   PAGING REDS TO THE THREAD

Quote from: GDavis on 02/02/17, 08:41:57 PM

Quote from: Shooty on 02/02/17, 06:29:09 PM
Trammell has a higher WAR than Raines so maybe that's it.  But Lou Whitaker had practically the same stats and WAR as Trammell and he gets zero consideration for the HOF.  Racist!

Is WAR based on position?  I know there were a ton of really light hitting SS in that era.

Its complicated, but yes, its based off of position. 

Quote from: GDavis on 02/02/17, 08:41:57 PM

Quote from: Shooty on 02/02/17, 06:29:09 PM
Trammell has a higher WAR than Raines so maybe that's it.  But Lou Whitaker had practically the same stats and WAR as Trammell and he gets zero consideration for the HOF.  Racist!

Is WAR based on position?  I know there were a ton of really light hitting SS in that era.

But what other slugging second basement were there at the time?  Sandberg is the only one I can think of