Well, here's an all-time team ROM put together using Nightwulf's cool new info... long batting averages and ERAs in place, no pitcher hitting in yet, maybe as soon as tomorrow...
Please have a look and let me know what y'all think!
(BTW - this is based on the overstuffed ROM so it can be run in the Palm NES emulator, in case anyone was wondering...)
EDIT - check the end of this thread for the updated ROM with pitcher batting implemented...
Very nice. Played through a game, and happy to say that St. Louis is still rockin. Also happy to see the long ERAs/BAs used and actually working as intended. As a lazy programmer, I'm always expecting something to go wrong. :)
While I'm at it, at the end of the 16-byte iNES header in your ROM, the characters "NI1.3" appear where there should be zeros, as defined by the iNES documentation. Any idea where this came from? I've known emulators to puke at bad characters in the header before, but never the reverse, heh.
Nightwulf
It's in the overstuffed ROM from dee-nee... No clue as to how it got there.
Quote(BTW - this is based on the overstuffed ROM so it can be run in the Palm NES emulator, in case anyone was wondering...)
Are you saying that you can play RBI on a Palm Pilot? If so SOMEONE TELL ME HOW!
Quote from: Vitb6 on 02/04/04, 08:52:39 PM
Are you saying that you can play RBI on a Palm Pilot? If so SOMEONE TELL ME HOW!
http://www.kalemsoft.com/products.html
Nightwulf
I'm working on what I will consider to be the greatest ROM ever.
I'm going to make a team for each of the team's of Rickey Henderson's storied career. So there will be the young Rickey on the late '70's A's, the mid-'80's Yanks, play-off '90's Toronto, as a card-playin'-in-the-dug-out-during-a-play-off-game Met, a Seattle error-makin' left-fielder, a record-breakin' Padre, a chump-ass bench Redsox and Dodger, etc.
The challenge will be to not repeat any other player. I know that he played w/ John Olerud in NY and Seattle... but not sure yet if he played on a Met team that didn't have Johnny O... the only repeat player is going to be King Rickey. the website: www.retrosheet.org is great for finding complete rosters of any team ever.
wish me luck.
by the way--is there an easy way to turn real-life stats into the 3 digit power, speed, and contact attributes OR do you just have to "eye" it based on the player and stats? In other words, is there a program or formula that exists where you can just plug in a batting avg, homerun amount, and sb total and it spits out the "magic" attributes for the game? That would be the best.
This is my new favorite website by the way.
Quote from: seddrah on 02/05/04, 02:09:47 AM
by the way--is there an easy way to turn real-life stats into the 3 digit power, speed, and contact attributes OR do you just have to "eye" it based on the player and stats? In other words, is there a program or formula that exists where you can just plug in a batting avg, homerun amount, and sb total and it spits out the "magic" attributes for the game? That would be the best.
Last time we tried thinking of such a thing, my brain left. Took several weeks to coax it back with promises of Rolling Rock and Taco Bell.
Nightwulf
I believe MarquisEXB uses some sort of formula when he puts together his ROMs, but I don't know whether he has anything set up so you can just plug int he stats. Like Nightwulf said, we (by "we" I mean "mostly Nightwulf and MarquisEXB") tried figuring out once whether there was any correlation between the stats and attributes in the original RBI, and all we ended up with was a very loose HR-power correlation and lots of headaches.
You should really read this page:
http://members.verizon.net/~vze2fndf/nesrbi/ (http://members.verizon.net/~vze2fndf/nesrbi/)
I hope it helps. If you have any questions regarding it, feel free to ask here.
Mike
I can try to explain the formula I used...
For speed, I used 118+(SB/3.33333) with a maximum of 148 (so it tops out at 100 steals for the fastest guys). This pretty much normalizes the curve to both the NES and arcade versions of RBI.
For contact, I used 38-((BA-.2)/.00526) with a minimum of 0. This gives the 0 to guys who bat over .400 and treats everyone who bats .200 or under the same, which seems about right.
For power, there are really 2 formulas - an arcade based one and an NES based one. They top out about the same for the really big homer guys, but the arcade formula penalizes low homer guys much more.
NES: 735 + 3.945*HR
Arcade: 690+4.562*HR
Seems to generate pretty good play results, check my ROM for the effects (this uses "arcade power").
Although you didn't ask, the other formula I used is for pitcher pitch speeds... tried to find out how fast guys actually throw, and plugged in the following (this can be really, really hard, depending on how obscure your guys are)
The three digit speed in the game is SPD... THe formula is
((SPD-133)*0.548192771084337)+58
133 is the minimum speed on the NES (Jesse Orosco's slowball, I believe). This pitch comes in around 58 MPH, on average. Having benchmarked a bunch of other speeds, this comes pretty close to translating the numbers to an MPH basis, so if you know you want a guy to throw a 98 MPH fastball, you can see what that works out to.
For curve and drop, you're on your own, but it helps to know what pitches guys actually threw - were they curveballers or screwballers, or known as especially hard or soft throwers. http://www.baseballlibrary.com is a great reference for this sort of anecdotal pitcher data... So and so had a wicked slider, that sort of thing.
-Dryden
Oh- two other things.
In an effort to not penalize people for "bad years", if the season I took their data from they were more than 10 SB or HR off of their regular totals, I averaged the two numbers to create a fairer portrait. Good example: Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds used to steal 30-50 bases per year, now they steal closer to 0. Sure, they're slower, but they also don't bother stealing since it isn't worth the tradeoff. This doesn't mean they're not fast, though. So I average their higher total with their current total to come up with a better speed figure (Barry shouldn't run like Tony Armas...)
Pitcher stamina. Rather than use the somewhat (IMHO) half-assed system in place, I tried to develop one that more closely approximated "reality" - if Bob Gibson throws nothing but complete games, he should have a shot to do that. Relievers are extra tricky because their use varies over the years, but it seems pretty clear that guys like Eric Gagne shouldn't be able to last more than an inning, while older relievers like Rollie Fingers might be good for two or more.
I took IP/G for all pitchers (seems like a good place to start) and averaged it over all of a pitchers "real" seasons (years where a starter made 25+ starts or a reliever made 35+ appearances).
For starters: IPG*7.439
For relievers: IPG*4.513
This gives you starters with staminas close to Bert Blyleven in the original and modern closers who can go an inning, but that's about it. Older relievers, like John Hiller, last more like 2 to 3 innings, depending on how they were actually used.
Try it and let me know what you think.
-Dryden
A good question to ask would be where did you get these equations?
Just at a first glance, I find your CNT too high (high=bad hitter, low = good hitter). For example my equation gives 2003 Bonds (.341) a 7 unadjusted, yours an 11. In the original (non-arcade), Boggs at .357 is a 4. I allow for a +/- so I adjusted for Bonds' obscene OBP by giving him the best (-3) and his CNT becomes a 4.
Mike
Honestly, I just don't think there's any consistency to the numbers they actually use... for instance, (using the arcade ROM) there are 2 0 cnt guys - Rogers Hornsby and Wade Boggs. Meanwhile, Ted Williams is a 2. I would go so far as to say there is not a single measure of hitting by which Wade Boggs can possibly be measured better than Ted Williams - BA, OBP, linear weights, VORP, Isolated walks, you name it. Bill Terry (.401 BA) has a 6, Willie Mays (.347 BA) also has a 6. Huh?
On the NES rom, Mike Schmidt has a .293 BA (OBP .388) and a cnt of 20. Dale Murphy has a .295 BA and a cnt of 17 (OBP .417). Al Pedrique - .294 BA, .349 OBP, cnt 19.
It just makes no sense. There's no internal consistency to the system, so decided to go with something that produced results that made sense to me. As for how it was calculated, I chose a "worst" contact of 38 and a best of 0, and applied that range to the range of BA's from .200 to .400. This gives the formula.
Hope that helps. (but of course, we still don't know if cnt actually does anything...)
I'm still boggled by contact too. I tried tracing it a bit while the ROM executes, but it's gonna take a lot more time than I have to put into it at the moment.
Contact (and possibly power, wasn't watching it) is read from RAM before every "frame" .. every time you see the ball move, contact was loaded right before it. One of these days I need to try and figure out how it all works ...
Nightwulf
I agree 100%, however by using your equation no one in 2003 has a single digit CNT, which I find to be a little high.
I don't remember how I came up with my equation, but I think I got it by running a linest in Excel. IIRC about 99% of the players were within +/-3 of this equation, at least for the original, I never looked into the arcade one. It seemed that for the most part they stuck with an equation for this, but edited it here & there when nec.
It's the power ratings that I think they just made up as they went along. You can use something to the effect of 4*hr + 755, but some players are 100 points off. I checked if they used slg as well, but a lot of players just don't make sense.
Getting back to CNT, if this is an all-time rom, your rating system may be better, since a .340 batter may be more common place.
Mike
The pitcher hitting for the All Time ROM is complete! Also, Dennis Eckersley now has his mind-blowin' 0.61 ERA, forgot to include it last time...
Check out Bob Lemon with Cleveland, Red Ruffing with the Yankees, Bob Gibson with the Cardinals and Don Drysdale with the Dodgers for some pitchers who can really thump. (relatively speaking, of course).
Comments would be greatly appreciated.
EDIT - Mike - I think you're right on with that. I set up the formula to work within the bounds of the ROM I was putting together (.340 isn't all that high all-time, precisely). For 2003, I would probably take the league leading BA (.359, screw the AL!) and use something more like 38-(BA-.2)/.004184. This way, anyone over .321 ends up with a single digit CNT, which seems more accurate.
And about the power... have you tried looking to see if there's some kind of adjustment based on AB's or PA's? Seems like that might have something to do with it...
You could always base all player's homerun totals on a 500 at-bat season before plugging the homerun total into the formula.
Example:
If Mel Hall hit 9 homeruns in 234 at bats it would go like this:
(500/234 = 2.13675) x 9 = 19 homeruns
Hall's power would be the equivelant of a nineteen homer guy.
Quote from: nightwulf on 02/04/04, 09:52:51 PM
Quote from: Vitb6 on 02/04/04, 08:52:39 PM
Are you saying that you can play RBI on a Palm Pilot? If so SOMEONE TELL ME HOW!
http://www.kalemsoft.com/products.html
Nightwulf
Nightwulf...which one should I buy for a Palm Tungsten E?
NesEm is the one you want, the full version, as the ROM is 260k to get it to run (it only correctly runs the overstuffed ROM, don't know why that is...)
Yeah, you'll need the non-Lite version. Even the "normal" ROM is 96k, and uses the MMC3 mapper (mapper number 4 in iNES notation; the Lite version only supports mappers 0 and 3).
I really wish theirs was an open source project; I'm dying to know why the 96k ROM won't work. :)
Nightwulf
Thanks to Dryden I have the NesEm. But where is the RBI ROM? Help.
Quote from: Vitb6 on 02/08/04, 11:56:10 AM
Thanks to Dryden I have the NesEm. But where is the RBI ROM? Help.
Vitb6...this is turning into the battle of the idiots: me v. you, for I have the exact same question. ;)
I can't get the NesEm to work on my PDA though. It says, "NesEm requires at least PalmOS version.
Does it work for you?
In all honesty, I haven't tried yet. I'll let you know when I do, though.
Quote from: Dryden on 02/05/04, 10:25:19 PM
NesEm is the one you want, the full version, as the ROM is 260k to get it to run (it only correctly runs the overstuffed ROM, don't know why that is...)
What is an overstuffed ROM?
Quote from: Vitb6 on 02/08/04, 11:56:10 AM
Thanks to Dryden I have the NesEm. But where is the RBI ROM? Help.
I was able to install the trial version of NesEm. But I can't seem to get a rom to hotsync to my palm.
Dryden...can you please post a ROM on this thread that I will be able to hotsync to my Palm Tungsten E and play? Ideally, I'd like the original RBI (nintendo and arcade).
Everytime I try to install a ROM or the NesEM RomInstaller, my Hotsync Log says "Install To Card synchronization failed."
Please help??!
OK, I'll try talking louder and slower...
In the Rom installer zip file there is a program called nes2pdb.exe. This is the only program you actually need. From a command prompt, run nes2pdb.exe RBI.nes (or whatever the nes ROM you want to put on your palm is called). This adds a small header to the nes file that lets it be synced to the palm as a pdb. Sync this file to your palm and you should see it appear in nesem.
To answer your earlier question, the "overstuffed" ROM contains duplicate copies of all of the data in RBI, that's why it's so big. See http://dee-nee.com/rbi/roms/ for more information - it's the overstuffed licensed ROM. At least on my palm, this is the only rom that will run properly (or edits of this rom, such as my all-time teams rom). The regular 96k rom will not work correctly.
Hope this helps.
I WILL KILL MYSELF! I finally got over my retardation and got it all working--only to get the message "Sorry, the preview edition is limited to 40KB or smallers roms."
I HATE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!