This article (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-halloffameballot&prov=ap&type=lgns) has so many RBI legends in it that I wont even list them all.
We should use this thread to submit our own Hall of Fame ballots (RBIers or not). The candidates:
Harold Baines, Jay Bell, Bert Blyleven, David Cone, Andre Dawson, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Jesse Orosco, Dave Parker, Dan Plesac, Tim Raines, Jim Rice, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Greg Vaughn, Mo Vaughn, Matt Williams
My ballot (in descending order of greatness):
Henderson
Blyleven
Raines
McGwire
Dawson
Trammell
Morris
Rice
I generally believe that the Hall should have too many players rather than too few, so I like to put lots of names on my ballot.
Ricky
McGwire
Blyleven
Rice
Dawson
Blyleven.
Quote from: Attezz on 12/01/08, 09:00:39 PM
Blyleven.
a fucking crying shame that he's not in
Let me first say, Rice is a must. His last chance at the Hall and he had monster numbers. I believe he isn't in because he didn't have a great relationship with the media and some would say he was surly. Who cares? Ty Cobb was pretty nasty too but he's in.
Otherwise all good choices, Blyleven is a must as well.
Quote from: BeefMaster on 12/01/08, 02:37:11 PM
We should use this thread to submit our own Hall of Fame ballots (RBIers or not). The candidates:
Harold Baines, Jay Bell, Bert Blyleven, David Cone, Andre Dawson, Ron Gant, Mark Grace, Rickey Henderson, Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Jesse Orosco, Dave Parker, Dan Plesac, Tim Raines, Jim Rice, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Greg Vaughn, Mo Vaughn, Matt Williams
These guys get my vote:
Henderson
McGwire
Blyleven
Quote from: Brookensrules! on 12/02/08, 07:53:12 AM
Let me first say, Rice is a must. His last chance at the Hall and he had monster numbers. I believe he isn't in because he didn't have a great relationship with the media and some would say he was surly. Who cares? Ty Cobb was pretty nasty too but he's in.
I hate this argument.
Why isn't John Wayne Gacy in the hall of fame? Because he killed people? Well! Ty Cobb killed a person too!!
Quote from: Attezz on 12/02/08, 10:14:53 AM
Quote from: Brookensrules! on 12/02/08, 07:53:12 AM
Let me first say, Rice is a must. His last chance at the Hall and he had monster numbers. I believe he isn't in because he didn't have a great relationship with the media and some would say he was surly. Who cares? Ty Cobb was pretty nasty too but he's in.
I hate this argument.
Why isn't John Wayne Gacy in the hall of fame? Because he killed people? Well! Ty Cobb killed a person too!!
You are nuts.
Quote from: Brookensrules! on 12/02/08, 12:43:56 PM
Quote from: Attezz on 12/02/08, 10:14:53 AM
Quote from: Brookensrules! on 12/02/08, 07:53:12 AM
Let me first say, Rice is a must. His last chance at the Hall and he had monster numbers. I believe he isn't in because he didn't have a great relationship with the media and some would say he was surly. Who cares? Ty Cobb was pretty nasty too but he's in.
I hate this argument.
Why isn't John Wayne Gacy in the hall of fame? Because he killed people? Well! Ty Cobb killed a person too!!
You are nuts.
So true.
But he is also right in this case.
Rickey
bert
Raines
Rice
trammell
Also Lou Whitaker's lack of votes a few years back is a fucking joke. Was the best all around player at his position in his league for a decade plus. Didnt receive the 5% required to stay on the ballot after his 1st year eligible. fuck off
Go ahead and for every player since the color barrier broke up to the '94 strike add 10 or so HRs to their season totals to get their 1995-drug testing era equivalents.
Here are some examples of me calculating top secret formulas that I developed to determine how 70s and 80's players would have done in the roid/juiced ball era
EXAMPLES
George brett 1980
real
avg .390
slg .664
hr 24
rbi 118
r 87
juiced era projection
real
avg .403
slg .722
hr 31
rbi 142
r 112
Andre Dawson 1987
real
avg .287
slg .568
hr 49
rbi 137
r 90
juiced era projection
avg .293
slg .692
hr 64
rbi 167
r 125
Jim Rice 1978
real
avg .315
slg .600
hr 46
rbi 139
r 121
juiced era projection
avg .342
slg .776
hr 71
rbi 183
r 145
Bonny, our boys will just have to trust us when we tell them how great the guys from the 70s and 80s were. The cocksuckers who get to vote will never do what is right.
Maybe the vet's committee will do the right thing and get Dick Allen and Ron Santo in this year.
I didn't see Dick Allen and Ron Santo, but I did see several years of Jim Rice. That guy was completely feared and with good reason. What a beast. He absolutely deserves enshrinement in my eyes.
Blyleven
Dawson
Murphy
Rickey
Raines
Rice
Trammell
Quote from: fathedX on 12/02/08, 11:31:32 PM
I didn't see Dick Allen and Ron Santo, but I did see several years of Jim Rice. That guy was completely feared and with good reason. What a beast. He absolutely deserves enshrinement in my eyes.
Jim Rice was a true superstar, his surly attitude toward the press shouldn't cost him the Hall.
Santo was tough, he was a mean SOB too, oh sure he is lovable as the Cubs radio announcer but he was tough and played hard in his career.
dale murphy and alan trammell, fighton? come on...
Baines
Baines
Baines
Baines
Baines
Baines
Baines
Baines
Baines
Baines
Well, the current issue of Baseball Digest predicts Henderson & Rice as the shoo-ins, & no one else. I dunno about McGwire, he has 13 tries left, but if he never gets in he'll have the most home runs without being enshrined until the end of time.
Blyleven deserves it. Everyone retired with 3,000+ K's is in the hall I THINK, not sure.
If Trammell played anywhere between the 1910's to the 1960's and had the same stats he'd be in.
Quote from: Metal King on 12/09/08, 09:33:59 PM
I dunno about McGwire, he has 13 tries left, but if he never gets in he'll have the most home runs without being enshrined until the end of time.
Sosa?
Bonds?
McGwire
Lee Smith
I think Bonds will get in no matter what, although it wouldn't surprise me if he is not voted in on the first ballot (that kinda sounds like a baseball writer's tactic, no?). You can argue Bonds was HOF material before he got juicy. McGwire and Sosa? Maybe not.
They didn't let Rose in, Bonds is going to serve time very likely, he'll probably be band
Bonds will get in someday, gotta wait until at least 2013 for that I believe. Sosa with his 609 homers may easily get him in, and overall he was a better player than McGwire. I dunno, maybe we'll see all 3 of 'em in there someday.
Santo definitely deserves to be in, should have for years already.
The plaques are dumb as shit anyway.
All of these players are already in the hall of fame, just not the stupid part.
The Hall of Fame has created a "Modern Era Committee" to consider players primarily from the 70s and 80s. As one would expect, it's got lots of RBIers:
Don Mattingly
Jack Morris
Dale Murphy
Alan Trammell
Steve Garvey (arcade)
Luis Tiant (arcade)
Ted Simmons (arcade)
Most obvious omission would appear to be Lou Whitaker (Joe Posnanski makes the case that he might have been better than Trammell (https://medium.com/joeblogs/was-whitaker-better-than-trammell-ddd23c45e35d)), but there are also folks complaining about the lack of Bobby Grich, Dwight Evans, and Willie Randolph.
Quote from: BeefMaster on 11/13/17, 08:32:00 AM
there are also folks complaining about the lack of Bobby Grich, Dwight Evans, and Willie Randolph.
Sig lined.
Trammell deserves to get it, I would love to see Tiant make it. Wouldn't mind the others except for Garvey.
If I remember correctly, Whitaker has one of the highest WARs for a position player* that literally got no consideration for the Hall. Trammell is only slightly behind. I get that they were never top 10 players (except for Trammell in 87), but there's something to be said for consistency. Its also really odd since they were "one team" players which Hall of Fame voters usually love. It would be great to see them both go in the Hall together as they were pretty much mirror images of each other in terms of skill set and stats.
*I think Bill Dahlen is first in terms of snubs. The guy played for 21 (1891-1911) years and had a 75+ WAR. The Hall put so many mediocre players with half his stats in during the early years, not sure why Dahlen hasn't gotten in even to this day. Seriously, they just elected Deacon White a few years back (and he retired in 1890). He had 30 less WAR. If you are going to go back and fix past snubs, start with Dahlen for god's sake.
its funny that his fielding would be contemplated to see if it lives up to the hall of fame standards, where most of the guys included wore gloves to field baseballs
Quote from: nomaaa on 11/24/17, 01:31:03 PM
its funny that his fielding would be contemplated to see if it lives up to the hall of fame standards, where most of the guys included wore gloves to field baseballs
I think most of these discussions have to be considered in the context of their play relative to the league at the time. The guys from the 1890s would be laughed off a Legion ball field with their tiny gloves with no webbing and terrible range, but they also played in a league where that applied to everyone, and fielding percentages that would get you booed off a modern field were the norm.
If we compared early 1900s Hall of Famers to modern players directly, then we'd have to induct literally everyone in Major League Baseball.
Even the Philly Phanatic?
Just learned this:
Trammell had a higher WAR in the 1980s than first ballot HOFers Cal Ripken and Ozzie Smith.
Is WAR a cumulative stat? If so then Ripken not being full time until the 1982 season likely explains that.
Quote from: Gantry on 11/27/17, 10:31:03 AM
Is WAR a cumulative stat? If so then Ripken not being full time until the 1982 season likely explains that.
Yes, but still pretty impressive considering Ripken had some of the highest WAR seasons of all time in the 80s.
As impressive as my face?
Let's not get crazy
8)
Quote from: Shooty on 11/27/17, 09:31:20 AM
Just learned this:
Trammell had a higher WAR in the 1980s than first ballot HOFers Cal Ripken and Ozzie Smith.
This is no surprise at all to Reds.
I'm pretty sure I had a higher WAR in the 80s than Ozzie Smith
Quote from: ultimate7 on 11/24/17, 12:20:49 PM
Trammell deserves to get it, I would love to see Tiant make it. Wouldn't mind the others except for Garvey.
Fuck steve garvey.
Trammell -- yes!
I'd be good with Mattingly, Ted Simmons, and Dale Murphy. Could be persuaded for Whitaker as well.
My brother just texted me saying that Alan Trammell and Jack Morris are going to the HOF
Quote from: edfan on 12/10/17, 06:08:49 PM
My brother just texted me saying that Alan Trammell and Jack Morris are going to the HOF
Confirmed. Whitaker should be going in with Trammell, imo.
Quote from: Shooty on 12/10/17, 06:24:44 PM
Quote from: edfan on 12/10/17, 06:08:49 PM
My brother just texted me saying that Alan Trammell and Jack Morris are going to the HOF
Confirmed. Whitaker should be going in with Trammell, imo.
Agreed. Its a shame that they're not going in together
I don't understand Morris getting in. He had a lot of wins, for what those are worth. He had a lot of complete games, too. But he walked a ton of guys and had a mediocre 3.90ERA / 105 ERA+. His game 7 performance in 1991 was legendary, but hall of fame career worthy? no.
On numbers alone, Ted Simmons is a hall of famer.
Surprised the veterans didn't give more consideration to Mattingly and Murphy. Mattingly was a no brainer for the hall through the 1989 season. Too bad he had a MikeD back.
Murphy was a shoe-in through 1987. Then he decided hitting .228 was cool.
Trammell clearly deserves it, Morris maybe not so much but I don't have a problem with it, he won a bunch of big games. It is a glorious day for the RBI Tigers.
even matt jokes was selected in the second round
Whitaker should and better be voted in by the "Modern Day" Committee one of these years. Ted Simmons too. If Harold Baines got in, that opens it up for a bunch more players that should've gone ahead of him. Murphy dominated from '80 to '87 and had been a good HR hitter since '78, and '88 through '91. But probably needed one more big year. Mattingly should get the nod for just what he did in the 80s, even though injuries hampered him in the 90s but was still solid.
And if Jack Morris got in, then also should Mickey Lolich, Jim Kaat and Tommy John. Dumb..........
Derek Jeter for sure 2020, Bobby Abreu the only other one who should get any attention. Has the numbers.