Alright, I have the info on all the locations and whatnot. I've started coding, but I have no idea when I'll get done. I'm dedicating my hobby programming time to this, but with a family and all that, they come first, so I'll get to this when I can...I'm as excited as the rest of you.
I'm gonna code with Dee-Nee users in mind, using NW's editor as a guide as far as the user interface goes. Yeah, it's gonna be web-based (in the spirit of speed, considering this is what I do for a living). If anyone has gripes or suggestions about the current editor that they would like to see, feel free to post here or contact me privately.
What the fuck?
What are you "wtf" ing?
I just wish someone would've informed me that I'd died.
?? Who said you died? I'm not following...
My hacking friend over at Knobbe whipped up a 30 team ROM and gave me all the hacking info for it. I am not trying to step on your toes or anything, don't take it like that. I'm just offering up what I have to the community. It's not meant to outdo you, it's meant to get a 30 team ROM with an editor out to the community, that's all. Would you prefer to work together?
As for my comments about the current editor, consider it flattery that I'm using your editor as a template. It's what people know, it's what people are used to, and noone liked the style of my standalone editor, so I thought I'd make it similar to yours, only with some updates.
I know how to use yours TecmoTurd, but I truly prefer NightWulfs editor. Keep up the great work.
Right on man. NW's will still be the go to editor for the 10 team ROM. I'm hoping mine does his justice. Im havingmore fun writing this than i've had in a long time.
I think Nightwulf feels like I'm encroaching on his territory, and I'm not that way. So, I'll attach the hacking info I received to this thread. I'm not trying to one-up anyone, I just hadn't seen him respond to any of the 30 Team stuff, so I figured I was the only one who cared about the hacking info...
tecmoturd, do you have a tecmo rom that say only has 12 teams on it? Can you make one or how can I?
A fantasy tecmo season on dee nee needs to happen.
you hijacker!
Anyways you can easily blank teams out, I believe. I agree this needs to happen. Especially with the stat extraction automation and movie recording capabilities we have setup.
My problem is, I prefer the SNES one. Either way, you don't need to blank anyone out, now that I think of it, just download TSBTool (or contact me on aim and I'll give it to you). That allows you to set the schedule for a season. Hit me up, I'd be glad to help you out.
Quote from: nightwulf on 07/20/09, 11:29:46 PM
I just wish someone would've informed me that I'd died.
Was that smell in Kentucky your corpse rotting?
Quote from: Dårky on 07/21/09, 07:46:54 AM
tecmoturd, do you have a tecmo rom that say only has 12 teams on it? Can you make one or how can I?
A fantasy tecmo season on dee nee needs to happen.
You can actually use a system over at Tecmoworld which will take your 12 team rom in. You will enter the 28 team rom and choose the 12 teams you like. Rename players, team names etc etc etc. And the stats will upload into the system keeping track of each game and week including playoffs and history stats etc. Here is link Darky.
http://www.tecmo.us/arena/viewforum.php?f=869
Put in a request to start a league.
http://tecmo.us/dynasty/main/default.php
This is the actual system where you uploads stats.
Quote from: MRRBI on 07/21/09, 05:10:30 PM
You can actually use a system over at Tecmoworld which will take your 12 team rom in. You will enter the 28 team rom and choose the 12 teams you like. Rename players, team names etc etc etc. And the stats will upload into the system keeping track of each game and week including playoffs and history stats etc. Here is link Darky.
http://www.tecmo.us/arena/viewforum.php?f=869
Put in a request to start a league.
http://tecmo.us/dynasty/main/default.php
This is the actual system where you uploads stats.
Put in a request? I want to run it off my virtual nes, set up a draft here on dee nee, then run a 12 man league on this site, not another sir RBI...thanks though.
I still need to contact you btw Tecmoturd...had some questions. About the RBI 30 man ROM and the tsbtool....
yeah, I'll be on AIM this evening to answer whatever you need.
Damn, that tecmo site that you and mrrbi are on is crazy. You guys got all kinds of shit going on there. Impressive and I'm curious.
Which one? I wrote my own at http://snfl.tecmosuperbowl.net, that's for our actual league. DynastyPhile is more generic and can be used for most any league...
both...tecmo world and yours.
Here's the deal, I want a tsb ROM, the original from 1991, and I want an editor for that. And it needs to be compatible with my virtual nes. Is this possible? Can I run a draft using all the players available, select maybe 10-12 teams, and block the other teams out when I run the fantasy tecmo league here on dee nee.
Thanks for woking on an editor. Cant wait.
Is there a way to have 3 sets of the teams in this 30 team ROM? Like three SF Giant teams for instance? Actually, I think I can do that by changing the numbers in the editor right?
I have some ideas. Particularly matching up my team (FRBI V Champions) with Team GDavis (FRBI IV Champions). We have the same players in some positions.
Yes, there absolutely is. Believe me, this editor is getting fairly complicated, so iteration one is not going to include the ability to edit team names (it's the trickiest part).
The only other thing is team initials. Not all of the lower-case characters are supported out of the box. I had a lengthy discussion with Mr. Stout today and he explained everything...it shouldn't be a problem for most people, but team initials like "Pq" aren't available because the lower-case q isn't available on the rom, and because it's a VRAM style ROM, tile graphics couldn't be added. It'd have to be drawn onto one of the reserve locations of needed. It's sort of frightening to think about, and I've probably already lost most of you (including myself a bit), but for me, having what we have is enough for me to overlook that kind of shit...
Agreed on overlooking the shit...Sounds pretty cool with this 30 team rom editor. All kinds of possibilities. I don't know what happened with you and Nightwulf there, but I suspect he meant that maybe he was disappointed that he did not think of this 30 team rom...nothing about encroaching imo...no need to respond to that btw...
Quote from: tecmoturd on 07/21/09, 10:08:03 PM
The only other thing is team initials. Not all of the lower-case characters are supported out of the box. I had a lengthy discussion with Mr. Stout today and he explained everything...it shouldn't be a problem for most people, but team initials like "Pq" aren't available because the lower-case q isn't available on the rom, and because it's a VRAM style ROM, tile graphics couldn't be added. It'd have to be drawn onto one of the reserve locations of needed. It's sort of frightening to think about, and I've probably already lost most of you (including myself a bit), but for me, having what we have is enough for me to overlook that kind of shit...
The original game allocated 20 tiles for team icons (2 per team). There simply isn't room in the PPU for an additional 40 tiles (you're limited to 255, and this same set of icons is used on other screens as well).
However, that page does include all uppercase letters and numbers, so those are always available. Just glancing at it I'm fairly sure you can squeeze in a few more tiles, but not 40.
Quote from: Dårky on 07/21/09, 10:16:02 PM
Agreed on overlooking the shit...Sounds pretty cool with this 30 team rom editor. All kinds of possibilities. I don't know what happened with you and Nightwulf there, but I suspect he meant that maybe he was disappointed that he did not think of this 30 team rom...nothing about encroaching imo...no need to respond to that btw...
Don't speak for me.
I brought up the concept of a 30-team ROM at the '06 fest but never had the motivation to do it. I'm glad someone finally did. What pissed me off is that Mr. Turd here decided to hoard all the new ROM information and make his own web-based editor, which is pretty much the polar opposite of how he was treated when he needed information and/or assistance.
Actually, taking a second look at it, I was only looking at the team select screen. There are four distinct pages of tiles where the team icons need to be present. Adding almost anything would become an impossibility when you start fucking with the pages used to draw the field, for instance.
I had a response, and deleted it, now I feel I need to post again.
Man, in no way shape or form did I hoard it! I offered it up up, and mentioned in the original post that I'd share it with whomever wanted it. Noone responded to that. Soon as you asked, I gave posted it.
As for the editor being web based or not, why does that matter? I was originally gonna just rewrite my C# one, but noone seemed to like it, and they preferred yours. So, I set out to make one like yours, and that ended up being web-based. Are you mad because you didn't get to write the editor? No matter if you did write one or not, I was always gonna because I wanted code that I controlled in case yours went away or whatever. So, you can still write an editor if you want...in fact, I was worried about bandwidth on my server anyways...
I have been super polite on the forums, over email, I've offered you all the information I got from my hacking pal, I've offered to collaborate, I've apologized for something at this point I'm not sure I did anything wrong, although I'm sorry that you perceived it as me stepping on your toes or hoarding. I am not quite sure how I can handle this any more respectfully. I have never been one to hoard, and have been trying to give to the community since day one. Again, my intent was never to oust you from your master hacking title. I'm not good enough to do that. I'm just a programmer who got excited about an exciting project and acted on it, without malicious intent. I'm not sure what else I can do at this point, so I'm just gonna continue writing the editor and hope that you are cool with me again someday.
As for what you said about the tiles, you're right, there are more than could probably be squeezed in, but not a lot more. For those screens, I might just capitalize the letters and be done with it.
Actually, if we wanted to squeeze a few more in, we could get rid of numbers, that would give us 10 more tiles.
Last thing I'll say on the matter...
I know, I should just let it go, but I don't want my reputation ruined! I'm a kind soul :) Just to prove to you that I wasn't hoarding, please refer to the original post where I said:
"As soon as we deem it playable, he's gonna hook me up with the locations for everything and I'll write an updated editor for this (and provide those locations to Nightwulf, in the event he wants to create an online editor for it)."
Link to the post:
http://forums.dee-nee.com/index.php?topic=23222.0
You'll notice the edit date was 7/16, so you know I didn't just edit it now...I'm not here to make enemies. The more we work together, the better this shit can be...
2-player pause is enabled, which is good. I'm not seeing Gantry's "same teams" hack, which is bad.
Probably not difficult to figure out again, but if your guy could probably do it in 30 seconds ...
Oh, did he leave that one out? I thought he added that one in...I'll see how hard it'd be for him to add it (I'm thinking not hard at all). I'll email him and get back to ya...
Originally controller input worked as such on the select screen: "ok, the user moved the team selector, OH WAIT someone already picked the team I'm supposed to move to so I'll skip it."
Gantry's hack got rid of the OH WAIT section (for your 6502-savvy friend, he NOP'ed it out).
This is a somewhat inelegant solution as the two selectors can disappear on each other. This is a non-issue. People want to play the same teams; having a "pretty" select screen is a low priority.
Agreed, no reason not to have it in there...
Will need to do some digging to find a couple palette values, sound data, and runs for a complete game, but other than that everything (sans team icons) parses.
Of course, versatility wasn't a goal of coding the original ...
I'm actually trying to make mine pretty clean. I get burned out and code lazily, and I'm really trying not to this time.
One thing I did, which was sort of a bitch was to make a minor tweak to the uniform editor where
you click on the part you want to edit instead of using the radio buttons. It turned out kind of neat. I'm actually using greybox for some stuff too in hopes I can keep the UI clean.
I love coding, but I gotta retire from the nerdery for tonight. I gotta get up and do this for a living tomorrow! And it's nowhere near as fun as coding for RBI.
Nw, did you see the attract mode stuff? He xplained it to me this evening. I'm sure you could do so on your own, but I'd be happy go over it with you if you want. It's really the only other non-straightforward thing left for me to code.
Just watched a game with the PPU viewer up and there's pretty much no good way to get icons for each team on each page. The solution I'm using for now is to restrict icons to capital letters and put a generic "home" and "away" icon on the scoreboard during gameplay. Down the road the editor could allow the user to define a few icons to give a better selection, particularly on the team select screen (where half of the name table is unused due to the elimination of the stadium picture). But there'll be nothing but "home" and "away" on the gameplay scoreboard without some serious work.
Quote from: tecmoturd on 07/22/09, 12:17:11 AM
Nw, did you see the attract mode stuff? He xplained it to me this evening. I'm sure you could do so on your own, but I'd be happy go over it with you if you want. It's really the only other non-straightforward thing left for me to code.
Changed back to fixed-length strings. The editor will take a text string and calculate space-padding for proper centering. There's plenty of room, and from an editing standpoint it makes more sense than re-writing a big chunk of 6502 with variable-length strings and updating 15 pointers with every build.
Honestly, I like the fixed length style better as well...the editor coding for that is a pain in the ass for a screen that rarely gets viewed anyways.
Why use a generic home/away for the scoreboard? Can't you just restrict that to a capital letter too?
Dare I ask for the info on what you reverted? If not, I understand. I just would prefer that we not have two versions of the 30 Team ROM floating around, it'll just be confusing.
Also, are you actually coding an editor right now? If so, let me know, and I'll stop being so dilligent about making mine user friendly and robust and just focus on something I can use...if you are, I still think we should chat, as I think you might possibly like some of the interface things I was using. Maybe not, but can't hurt.
Quote from: tecmoturd on 07/23/09, 01:50:07 PM
Why use a generic home/away for the scoreboard? Can't you just restrict that to a capital letter too?
See attached. You still don't have all 26 letters available for the name table (left side). I suppose you could kick out things like 'Q' but I'd rather have all or none available. There are some apparent unused tiles (0x32, 0x34, 0x35, 0x3B, 0xDB, 0xDC) that could be utilized to offer a full alphabet, but that's not a priority right this second.
Quote from: tecmoturd on 07/23/09, 01:50:07 PM
Dare I ask for the info on what you reverted? If not, I understand. I just would prefer that we not have two versions of the 30 Team ROM floating around, it'll just be confusing.
There's nothing "different" about the ROM. Simply gave all 60 strings the same length and updated the pointers.
Quote from: tecmoturd on 07/23/09, 01:50:07 PM
Also, are you actually coding an editor right now? If so, let me know, and I'll stop being so dilligent about making mine user friendly and robust and just focus on something I can use...if you are, I still think we should chat, as I think you might possibly like some of the interface things I was using. Maybe not, but can't hurt.
Have been since I got back from Cinci and could actually catch up on everything. If your "interface things" involve using a bunch of extra libraries (greybox ...) for nothing but graphic effects and no functionality, I'm not interested. That's nothing against you personally ... I'm generally not interested in anything I can't do with vi and gimp.
Ok, fair enough, I'm officially relinquishing all this "official" editor stuff to you then. I'm still gonna write mine for my own personal use, so I'll probably still be involved in this. I'd also like to do it just for my own knowledge and education/entertainment.
Name tiles...I understand...I tried putting all caps in and it wasn't happy how it looked, everything was crammed together on the team select screen. Do you have a way around that? Honestly, if that was fixed, I'd be completely happy with an "all caps" solution. That was my original solution, except I didn't like how it looked on the team selection screen.
Pointer info...that makes sense, and probably a good way to go. So does it just skip the subroutine that he calls then? Any chance you could provide the rom you used and the fixed length/pointer stuff you used?
Interface...that's fine. I considered greybox a nice solution because it allows me to stay in one spot and pop up stuff in an overlay...but to each his own. This is the main reason why I'd like to write my own editor for personal reasons...the only thing other thing I did that was slightly different than you did were the following two things:
1.) Import/Export using CSV (not terribly important, as a tab delimited can be easily converted, but still it's nice cause that's what I use to edit)
2.) The player uniform editor...instead of clicking radio buttons, my editor allows you to click the part you want to edit right on the guy and selects the part you're editing right there...
P.S. Stout is working on a tile solution that he's not even sure would work, but if it does, it'd make the game unplayable on a cart, but it would be playable on an emulator...just an FYI.
Can't wait!
Would a "team import" feature in an editor be possible?
I have only played single games on the 30 team rom. Does "season mode" take you thru 29 opponents?
I think for this many teams there should be a team import where you can specify name, newspaper name, abbreviations, error value, and hex colors for uniforms...
Good question on the 29 team thing, i don't have the answer to that.
Quote from: tecmoturd on 07/23/09, 04:10:28 PM
I think for this many teams there should be a team import where you can specify name, newspaper name, abbreviations, error value, and hex colors for uniforms...
Players too. Like a whole team file that the editor can plug into a rom(or whatever). Enabling the moving of teams from rom file to rom file. Kinda like MVPEdit did.
Quote from: bonny on 07/23/09, 04:08:25 PM
Would a "team import" feature in an editor be possible?
"Team import" from what? If you're talking other ROMs, definitely possible. I'm envisioning a process where you upload a (10-team) ROM, select teams to copy to a 30-team ROM, upload another, etc. The only caveat is that 10-team ROMs may or may not have extras such as per-pitcher batting, long batting averages, etc. So I'll need a default case to populate data for those fields.
The 30-team ROM has all the bells and whistles (such as long ba/era, ppb) and I see no reason to put together a version that doesn't have those features.
Quote from: nightwulf on 07/23/09, 04:24:00 PM
Quote from: bonny on 07/23/09, 04:08:25 PM
Would a "team import" feature in an editor be possible?
If you're talking other ROMs, definitely possible.
That's what Im talking about.
How about Lahman database importing and rating generation?
Quote from: bonny on 07/23/09, 04:35:09 PM
How about Lahman database importing and rating generation?
Give me an example of this database.
It's what sim games like Baseball Mogul, Out of the Park and others use to create historic season sims. MVPedit used it too to load up old teams/leagues to MVP 2004 and 2005.
Its all computery voodoo that I know zero about, but somehow those games and MVPedit translated it into the games as ratings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Lahman
http://www.baseball1.com/
I had an idea ro create a page where you can specify juice levels for hitting (curve, contact, power, speed) and pitching (speed, curve) and select a team and it would generate a rom from that withe everyone juiced except for the specified team. This way you could play a season vs the other teams and it'd actually be a challenge. Would anyone have a use for this? I am gonna try it out.
I was also thinking of a season tracker program that attempts to create a season locLly on your computer. It would track stats for you, and maybe sim games so that you could have that season feel. Anyone interested in something like this?
For sure.
SImming is the hardest part of all of this. Still thinking of ways to do this.
I wanted to cast another vote for a "DH" in the editor. Hopefully implemented in the way that the customized name appears in the 9th slot in the batting order in place of the pitcher.
If this could be done, it wouldn't need to be a default that was preselected. This way those who wish to keep the pitchers batting can elect to do so.
For those of us creating historical rosters it would be a great way to include one more of our favorite players. thanks for giving this a thought.
Icant speak for Nightwulf, but I don't think a DH hack is in the cards right now. We JUST got 30 teams on one ROM. Im thankful for what we've got.
It's definitely possible assuming you use up one of the PH spots as the DH. It's probably possible adding the DH to the roster, but don't expect that any time soon.
Quote from: nightwulf on 07/26/09, 04:53:57 PM
It's definitely possible assuming you use up one of the PH spots as the DH. It's probably possible adding the DH to the roster, but don't expect that any time soon.
nightwulf, using one of the PH spots is an excellent thought. if that was a feasible option in the 30 team ROM editor's near future it would be fantastic.
Quote from: nightwulf on 07/26/09, 04:53:57 PM
It's definitely possible assuming you use up one of the PH spots as the DH. It's probably possible adding the DH to the roster, but don't expect that any time soon.
Would 25 man rosters be possible then?
BUMP
Just got some great numbers in for juicing CPU ROMS. Stout found the locations for outfielder juice (arm strength and running speed) and wrote a little patch to allow for CPU to have a different set of juice than the MAN player, so that's pretty freakin' awesome. I've forwarded the info to NW, so hopefully we get this into the editor. If not, I'll work on something to handle it.
wow, so outfielder and infielder ratings are different? you can confirm this?
i believe gantry had suspected...
That makes sense because I had not suspected a thing.
There a different set of ratings for each position, as well as some for special situations like a kickoff situation.
The game already had p1 speed and p2, he just patched it so the CPU would be separate from the man attributes. I'll post the info when I get to a computer.
Quote from: TβG on 07/30/09, 07:56:11 AM
wow, so outfielder and infielder ratings are different? you can confirm this?
i believe gantry had suspected...
Gantry had figured out that they had different running speeds (he tested this by running a bunch of guys to the wall and seeing how fast they ran away), but I don't believe there was anything definitive figured out about arm strength.
This is more really cool stuff.
Hey Turd, jeid from tecmo here - looks like you and jstout are doing some great things with RBI. I'm just curious, in one of your posts you mentioned you wanted to go away from a "tool" type editor... just curious as to why you're thinking this way. One of the major bonuses for a "tool" type editor, at least for an excel geek like me, is to quickly modify large amounts of data not possible with a more GUI intensive application (i.e. TSBTool vs TSBM).
Either way, great job, and looking forward to your editor. You always do quality work... now all we need is a RBI tourney in WI :)
Welcome jeid! I think we can probably scrounge up enough people to get a tourney going in WI - I'm sure Repeat from Madison and Wilfong from Milwaukee (pronounced ...) would be in and I'm sure a couple of us Chicagoans would also go. Lets make it happen, provided we can find a central location.
There are several guys in Madison who play Tecmo that also play RBI - at the last Tecmo tournament in Wisconsin Dells one guy even brought RBI to play afterwards. I think it would be the best location.
I'm from Milwaukee myself, so yeah...
Jeid, long time no talk :) Believe me, I love the tool type editor (my RBITool is one of desktop nature) but one thing to remember is a lot of the guys here aren't geeks, and I found that RBITool (VERY similar to TSBTool) didn't work in this community. So, I started writing a web-based one. I've handed the torch back over to Nightwulf now, and his editor will become the Dee-Sponsored editor. Mine is in fairly decent shape and still gets love and attention when I feel like working on it, but I'm in no rush. I'm only building it for my own personal needs now...I'm very picky with how I like things to work, and if I have my own editor, I get to control what I put in it, hence my continued development. I just created a juicing area recently and tested out some games tonight...works great.
Anyways, that's all I got...welcome over to the Dee-Nee side of things. Don't poop in anyone's Cherios, or something like that. I read that somewhere.
I'm tagging this so in 10 years when this finishes I can be like "awesome". And play it.
For the record, I was waiting on nightwulf, and planned on giving him (and frankly myself) until start of baseball next season. Haven't heard from him, so there ya go. My motivation has transferred to football for the te being.
I have preliminary work done. Actually making a finished product, just like RBI editor v2, will probably happen when I take a week off of work.
Awesome. There ya go then.
does anyone know if the 30 team rom ever got finished?
The editor, or the ROM? Nightwulf's working on an editor, I'm working on the 2010 ROM. It'll be a while before the actual ROM is out, but I post my 2009 edit here somewhere...
hi tecomoturd, sorry if i sound like an idiot, i dont really understand much about this stuff. i am in touch with a guy who will make me a nes cartridge of a ROM, all I have to do is send him a working ROM (i think) and he will convert it to a cartridge. do you have a link to the 2009 ROM that i could send him?
when you say you post your 2009 edit here somewhere, is that what i need to find and send to him?
No problem at allman, glad to help. I forgot, you don't need the link, I have my rom generator hosted on my site:
http://rbi30.sweethoss.com/
this will allow you to export as is, or juice it for playing vs. the CPU. Any questions, pm me or whatever.
awesome, thanks. so i can just send him that link and i should be good, right?
You could, and then he'd have to hit the export button, and what he would get would be my 30 teM rom edit with no juice, just like the original, ecxept with 30 teams.
If you want to customize it, I'd recommend exporting a rom yourself and playing around with it to see how you like it.
is this 30 team rom with the 2009 rosters?
Yes, but it was an early edit so it's not entirely accurate. My next one should be better.
its all good. i exported it to my desktop then attached it to an email and sent it to him. thanks for all the help man, this is really awesome
I haven't researched this, but is there a 30 team editor available?
No, as indicated by the last rom release there are massive bugs that made me have to do stuff manually. Are there changes you want made?
Ah, good to know. I'm a huge Dodgers fan and would love to see the "potential" 2013 team on the game. Crawford actually in the lineup; Kemp, Crawford, Hanley, Ethier with juiced stats and attributes. I figured I would do it myself and I'm not going to ask someone else to do it for me.
Yeah, the last workable version of the editor doesn't do any of the new hacks and some of the crap has been moved around on the ROM, so there are a few things I have to fix and mess with by hand. It would really make my life easier if I were to just code it, but sometimes the last thing I want to do is code when I do that all day at work.
Are you making a new editor? When opening the rom it says no iNES header found
It's not in the plans. The rom has changed significantly since the editor was first created and it no longer works. I let it go because I focus more on creating the yearly ROM as opposed to getting a workable editor available to the public.
Hi turd ! Just like to say thank you for the time we could use the editor. I`m sad too because I used it a lot to update RBI 3. His it possible to use the editor another way. Here is my 2014 update of RBI 3 with all the player average in 162 game.