One Flap Down here. Just throwin a bark Gantry's way to see if our RBI leaders found any way for us to have RBI Battles against each other (via this website).
Looking forward to it amigo. Your flock of followers are ready to rock n roll.
Ps. I'll Even take the Mets against anyone.
Alan in San Diego (One Flap Down)
Thanks for checking back in Alan... My lazy ass got about 15 minutes into the project over the weekend before I quit. But I'll put it on the agenda for today, and I'm even writing it down! Check back in the pm after I get done with my "real" work...
Geek speak ahead...
Well, there is some progress. I got the network server working at home on my Debian system. Played with two local machines (WinXP and 98) and there is zero lag. Of course it's a local network and I have 11mb (wireless) of bandwidth between the systems...
Unfortunately the network server won't compile on dee-nee.com - it uses a newer c/c++ library RedHat 7.3. And unfortunately every Linux system at work is RedHat 7.x - so I'm a bit of a pickle. I can:
1) Use my home PC as a temp server but this isn't gonna work long-term. My IP changes all the time and my upload bandwidth is pretty limited on my cable modem. README says 65-70 Kbps per connenction and I think I am capped at 128Kbps, so the speed would be ass...
2) Use cygwin to compile on a windows machine at work. Also not gonna work because most of the PCs are fairly slow except our production servers. And I ain't touching them...
3) Install new glibc/gcc/g++ etc from source on dee-nee.com - no fucking way...
4) Install Debian on a spare PC at work and use it strictly for the network server. This looks like the best bet but I know my lazy ass will take a month to get this done...
If I'm missing something easy let me know. Otherwise I'll have to get a new machine running at work...
Gantry, I have no idea what you just posted. But godspeed, my friend.
I'll get it done and people will be able to play online via dee-nee.com - I just hope there's no lag. I'll setup a new server for online RBI sometime soon, maybe over the weekend...
That would be so sweet, man if this works I may have to stop using dial up at home.
Do you realize the domino effect this will have on the universe?
Quote from: JoeDirt on 07/21/04, 11:42:11 AM
Do you realize the domino effect this will have on the universe?
It could really revolutionize dee-nee. Maybe put something on the front page explaining that online RBI is possible throught the site - people would be coming out of the woodwork.
Quote from: Gantry on 07/20/04, 11:10:25 PM
Unfortunately the network server won't compile on dee-nee.com - it uses a newer c/c++ library RedHat 7.3. And unfortunately every Linux system at work is RedHat 7.x - so I'm a bit of a pickle.
What version of gcc is required, and what's running on dee-nee.com? I can switch libraries around on my system easily enough; maybe I can come up with something precompiled.
Quote from: Gantry on 07/20/04, 11:10:25 PM
1) Use my home PC as a temp server but this isn't gonna work long-term. My IP changes all the time and my upload bandwidth is pretty limited on my cable modem. README says 65-70 Kbps per connenction and I think I am capped at 128Kbps, so the speed would be ass...
Same bind here. My IP is fairly static, and it's not really an issue with all the dynamic DNS services floating around. That said, I pull about a 30k upload stream from my provider, and normally I'm using the majority of it.
Quote from: Gantry on 07/20/04, 11:10:25 PM
3) Install new glibc/gcc/g++ etc from source on dee-nee.com - no fucking way...
Shouldn't be a problem, especially since you're running RH. There's probably eight jillion precompiled gcc/utils out there for every minor version of RH.
Quote from: Gantry on 07/20/04, 11:10:25 PM
4) Install Debian on a spare PC at work and use it strictly for the network server. This looks like the best bet but I know my lazy ass will take a month to get this done...
*cough* Slackware *cough* :)
Nightwulf
I'm too lazy to read this thread...what is it about?
QuoteWhat version of gcc is required, and what's running on dee-nee.com? I can switch libraries around on my system easily enough; maybe I can come up with something precompiled.
Good question, the doc is very spare. All I know is that it doesn't compile and googling led to a c-library update. With the main c library (glibc), I don't think you can simply use a precomplied binary on another system if that program uses functions in the newer lib. It's a semi-common problem for me on RH 7.x because it has glibc (aka libc6) 2.2 and many precompiled binaries require glibc 2.3 or better to work. Same reason I can't use the precompiled mozilla firefox and thunderbird binaries on mozilla.org, I don't have new enough c libs...
QuoteShouldn't be a problem, especially since you're running RH. There's probably eight jillion precompiled gcc/utils out there for every minor version of RH.
I should have initially said glibc (and the c++ libs) and not gcc - the issue isn't with gcc but the core c libraries. This isn't an easy drop in replacement as with most packages. If you install a whole major version of glibc you typically break binary compatability with older apps. That's why RedHat always released a new version number on major glibc updates - 6.2 to 7.0 went to glibc 2.2 and 7.3 to 8.0 went from 2.2 to 2.3. Ditto with Redhat 5.2 to 6.0 I think that was libc5 to libc6 (2.0) and so on. So it's not the compiler moreso the libraries...
That being said, if you can find a glibc 2.3.x RPM for RedHat 7.3 we'd solve the problem. Actually no because I wouldn't install it as it runs the risk of breaking every binary on my system...
Copied over the compiled binary on my Debian Sarge system at home over to dee-nee and here's what I got:
[root@natas tmp]# ./server standard.conf
./server: error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Search on rpmfind.net shows me that's the libstdc++ package and there is no such package for RedHat 7.3 that contains this file. Looking at the RedHat 8.0 package, it has few requirements and only provides two files. So many I can compile this package or install the RedHat 8.0 rpm.
Also notice the libstdc++ version on my RedHat 7.3 system corresponds exactly to the version of gcc. So maybe this is an issue with gcc and not glibc, which would be workable. Of course I've never installed a major version of gcc on a system, but it can't be too hard, can it?
Here's what dee-nee.com has:
[root@natas tmp]# rpm -q gcc libstdc++
gcc-2.96-113
libstdc++-2.96-113
RedHat 8.0 uses gcc 3.2.7 so I think if I can find gcc 3.x rpms for RedHat 7.3 I might be in business. Does all this make sense nightwulf? I don't do much development and want to make sure I won't be breaking anything by undertaking such a project...
After some research, it's time to build gcc 3.4.1 from source on dee-nee.com - never done it before but it's time to learn. That has the libstdc++ libs as part of the release, so it's the way to go...
Cross fingers people...
They are crossed
The compiler is "compiled" but I'll give it a test tomorrow when I'm at Lipitz's house putting more videos up from the tourney. Should be a big day for dee-nee updates...
Quote from: Gantry on 07/22/04, 01:36:31 AM
The compiler is "compiled" but I'll give it a test tomorrow when I'm at Lipitz's house putting more videos up from the tourney. Should be a big day for dee-nee updates...
Don't forget a couple of music reviews.
It's works! Sorta...
dee-nee.com is running the network server and I'm using two PCs at home to do a test. To me it's still a bit laggy. Unfortunately for a game like RBI, this may be too slow. I'm trying two PCs at once with the keyboard right now so it's a bad test. I'll bring the laptop over to Lipitz's tonight and we'll try to play with two fast PCs and two joysticks. That'll be the true test...
nightwulf, you were looking for a challenge perhaps you and I should try to improve the server code specifically for RBI. The main server is only 800 lines of code (though c++) and I'd be willing to devote effort if I know you'd be somewhat on board. You a way better programmer and I don't know c++ so I'd need someone to turn to with debugging and questions....
I feel as though I'm in the presence of genius. Newton, Einstein, Edison...Gantry.
Nah, this just coincides what I've been doing my entire life - working on computers. I'm actually not a programmer in any way, shape or forms outside of the token CompSci degree (it should have been in drinking). That's why I'd like nightwulf to back me up when I get stuck. Learning a new language with nobody to turn to with problems would probably make it not worth it...
Lips - You know c++ ?
No, I wouldn't be of any help.
I know a decent amount (6+ years) so if he's not willing to help I will, but I don't know how much free time I have.
6+ years beats out nothing... I think I'll be undertaking this project, gotta have something to do and it's fresh....
Wouldn't need much time defen, just would post/email certain questions if I get stuck, that's all...
Yeah, I'd be more than happy to answer anything you've got that I can.
Quote from: Gantry on 07/21/04, 08:44:55 PM
I should have initially said glibc (and the c++ libs) and not gcc - the issue isn't with gcc but the core c libraries. This isn't an easy drop in replacement as with most packages. If you install a whole major version of glibc you typically break binary compatability with older apps. That's why RedHat always released a new version number on major glibc updates - 6.2 to 7.0 went to glibc 2.2 and 7.3 to 8.0 went from 2.2 to 2.3. Ditto with Redhat 5.2 to 6.0 I think that was libc5 to libc6 (2.0) and so on. So it's not the compiler moreso the libraries...
You're right, my fault. I didn't ask whether you were running into gcc or glibc problems. If you're running into problems not being able to compile software, it really might be time to look at overhauling the beast that is dee-nee ... :)
Quote from: Gantry on 07/22/04, 12:28:33 PM
nightwulf, you were looking for a challenge perhaps you and I should try to improve the server code specifically for RBI. The main server is only 800 lines of code (though c++) and I'd be willing to devote effort if I know you'd be somewhat on board. You a way better programmer and I don't know c++ so I'd need someone to turn to with debugging and questions....
I'm not sure that the concept of a "network server" is the issue. The big stumbling block of network play in emulators has always been that network latency kills the experience. I don't see how adding an external server would change anything; people (like me) still have garbage upload streams on cable.
I'll glance at the source again, but I'm not likely to be of much help. My C is years old, and my C++ isn't any better.
Nightwulf
"G"-money,
Your hard work is much appreciated. I'm sure once its all set up and running, you will for sure be rewarded by the RBI gods with a few "Through the Wall" HR's and an "E" or two from your first opponents......
Ps. Anyone want to guess what my username is referencing or would that be insulting everyone's baseball inteligence?
One Flap Down, over and out.
QuoteYou're right, my fault. I didn't ask whether you were running into gcc or glibc problems. If you're running into problems not being able to compile software, it really might be time to look at overhauling the beast that is dee-nee
I hear ya, but upgrades suck. Plus I don't use it all that often as a workstation so the not-so-latest-and-greatest works fine for me. A shell and a web browser is all I need...
Plus I don't have to compile much in the way of new software. I do have gcc 3.4.1 thanks to last night's fun though so perhaps that'll keep me going awhile longer before the inevitable upgrade...
QuoteI'm not sure that the concept of a "network server" is the issue. The big stumbling block of network play in emulators has always been that network latency kills the experience. I don't see how adding an external server would change anything; people (like me) still have garbage upload streams on cable.
This is a good point, are there any emus that have good network play? And stricly in terms of emus for systems that weren't designed with networking in mind. Head-to-head RBI is just about a realtime as you can get, wonder how much upstream data is actually used on the client side with a central server...
Fuck me in the goat ass. Usually I don't even bother to read this thread because I assume that nothing as sweet as true online RBI at dee-nee could be possible. However, like Doc Brown and his flux capacitor it seems that Gantry has nearly hit his head on the proverbial toilet bowl and is nearing an earth shattering revelation. Gantry are you prepared for dee-nee's membership to spike into the thousands?! Fuck me. I can't wait. I will be bustin' on you ho's at all hours. Yee-haw!
This is really the Holy Grail of RBI Baseball. If Gantry can pull this off, I'll name my firstborn after him. Which would really suck if it's a girl.
Quote from: Gantry on 07/22/04, 03:37:23 PM
I hear ya, but upgrades suck. Plus I don't use it all that often as a workstation so the not-so-latest-and-greatest works fine for me. A shell and a web browser is all I need...
See, you disappoint me. True nerdliness involves upgrading your software libraries for fun. :P
Nightwulf
Yeah, I'm getting too old for that shit...
Lips and I played a few innings today and it played great! So there is still hope. One of the joysticks wasn't usable so we just dicked around for a couple innings. But there is progress and this may be doable. More testing needs to be done, but be patient...
Quote from: fightonusc on 07/22/04, 05:19:47 PM
This is really the Holy Grail of RBI Baseball. If Gantry can pull this off, I'll name my firstborn after him. Which would really suck if it's a girl.
This is an absolutely savage post. Well done, uscsucks. ;)
Quote from: doveRBI on 07/22/04, 05:07:13 PM
However, like Doc Brown and his flux capacitor it seems that Gantry has nearly hit his head on the proverbial toilet bowl and is nearing an earth shattering revelation. Gantry are you prepared for dee-nee's membership to spike into the thousands?!
Quote
Yet another "savage" post.
Gantry, I think dove is right. If this gets done, dee nee will be worldwide. Shit, my heart just stopped. Wait, there it goes.
Lookin' pretty promising, Gantry, at least for straight pitch (somewhat less precision necessary), which would be better than nothing. Let me know if you need any beta testing - I've got a 128 kb up/1.5 Mb down connection, which is probably representative of many cable connections. I'm also behind a router, if there are any issues there.
I do know C++, but I have zero experience in network programming, plus I haven't touched it since college (although I do Java now, which is fairly similar). I can probably take a look at that code, but I don't have much confidence that I could be of much help.
Quote from: Gantry on 07/22/04, 03:37:23 PM
QuoteYou're right, my fault. I didn't ask whether you were running into gcc or glibc problems. If you're running into problems not being able to compile software, it really might be time to look at overhauling the beast that is dee-nee
I hear ya, but upgrades suck. Plus I don't use it all that often as a workstation so the not-so-latest-and-greatest works fine for me. A shell and a web browser is all I need...
Plus I don't have to compile much in the way of new software. I do have gcc 3.4.1 thanks to last night's fun though so perhaps that'll keep me going awhile longer before the inevitable upgrade...
QuoteI'm not sure that the concept of a "network server" is the issue. The big stumbling block of network play in emulators has always been that network latency kills the experience. I don't see how adding an external server would change anything; people (like me) still have garbage upload streams on cable.
This is a good point, are there any emus that have good network play? And stricly in terms of emus for systems that weren't designed with networking in mind. Head-to-head RBI is just about a realtime as you can get, wonder how much upstream data is actually used on the client side with a central server...
The central server cuts out on some of the upstream, but you do lose probably 10-20% on just overhead using the server rather than head to head, but that also makes finding games and connectivity that much easier. I don't know if FCEU is the best network-ed NES emulator out there but I'll dig around sometime this weekend. As always, if you get stuck or something send me an email at cpeacock@uscdev.com and I can take a look at the stuff. My network programming is still pretty up to date, but who the hell knows what that thing is doing.
The central server's biggest asset is ease of use. With no many people with broadband routers, getting the old direct way to work was a PITA on the user side. The docs for the server say it takes 65-70 Kbps per user to function, so hopefully it's a similar upload requirement on the client side. It really did play with next to no lag at LIpitz's place I was most impressed. I think the issue at my house was the old testing PC I used, it couldn't keep up with the emulation...
dee-nee.com is on a full 1.5 up/down T1 line so we can easily get 8 or so games going at once without server bandwidth issues...
Lips is heading out of town for the weekend, so perhaps I'll get on AIM and test with nightwulf, Beef or someone else over the weekend. Gotta buy a Gravis though, can't test jack without a joystick...
Quote from: Gantry on 07/23/04, 10:48:02 AM
Gotta buy a Gravis though, can't test jack without a joystick...
I will definitely have to purchase a controller of sorts.
(http://img13.photobucket.com/albums/v37/fightonusc/bromley_d_allan_f1.jpg)
[size=0]Here, you can see (from left to right) Lipitz, Gantry and Nightwulf at the Dee-Nee Laboratories working on the RBI Baseball central server, a concept which would later win them the Nobel Prize for Science, as well as the Nobel Peace Price for using online RBI Baseball to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.[/size]
That photoshop of Gantry and fucking univac-1 is fucking hysterical. I am pissing myself.
I just wanted to say thanks, and also blatantly pad my post count.