Joe Posnanski (my favorite baseball writer) is doing a list on his blog of the 100 greatest baseball players of all time, with a short blog post about each of them. Today's was my favorite player of all time, Ryne Sandberg, and I figured I'd post the ones about RBIers here:
#77 Ozzie Smith (http://joeposnanski.com/joeblogs/no-77-ozzie-smith/)
#78 Ryne Sandberg (http://joeposnanski.com/joeblogs/no-78-ryne-sandberg/)
#87 Nolan Ryan (http://joeposnanski.com/joeblogs/no-87-nolan-ryan/)
#88 Tim Raines (http://joeposnanski.com/joeblogs/no-88-tim-raines/)
#90 Mark McGwire (http://joeposnanski.com/joeblogs/no-90-mark-mcgwire/)
#97 Lou Whitaker (http://joeposnanski.com/joeblogs/no-97-lou-whitaker/)
* Updated to add Ozzie Smith
I'm sorry, but there's no way there weren't 100 players better than Lou Whitaker. No way...
Wins Above Replacement has Whitaker as the 6th-greatest second baseman of all time. He was hugely underrated during his prime because one of his great skills was his ability to get on base (despite an ordinary career batting average), his defense was solid, and his home run totals don't look as great because he played in an era that didn't produce much offense.
Quote from: BeefMaster on 12/18/13, 08:38:39 AM
* Updated to add Ozzie Smith
Reds' head just exploded
Funny, I assumed Ozzie Smith had to be top 5 or so.
Ozzie smith is not a better player than sandberg. Neither were better then Nolan Ryan.
I don't know that I'd include sandberg in the top 100. That's impressive company.
Quote from: ryno on 12/18/13, 10:31:59 PM
Ozzie smith is not a better player than sandberg.
I think you could make the argument that Ozzie was better. If you look at WAR, he's certainly better.
But its defensive war for the most part and that's a very sketchy stat
Very difficult to have good reliable defensivr stats.
Quote from: ryno on 12/18/13, 10:31:59 PM
I don't know that I'd include sandberg in the top 100. That's impressive company.
Dude, Lou Whitaker is in the top100. One top10 MVP vote in his career and that was 8th.
Quote from: ryno on 12/19/13, 06:44:21 AM
But its defensive war for the most part and that's a very sketchy stat
Very difficult to have good reliable defensivr stats.
I agree about DWAR, but Ozzie's offense was still good. He got on base and stole a lot of bases with good success rate. Sandberg was obviously a better offensive player, but Ozzie was valuable in his own right. Defensively, there's no question that Ozzie was better, even without using defensive metrics. Sandberg made his plays, but Ozzie had great range to take hits away.
Anyone who thinks Ozzie Smith was a better overall baseball player than Ryne Sandberg needs to get their fucking head examined. Seriously
If you think that just because Ryne hit HRs he's a better player that YOU'RE the dumb one!
Good day sir...
I like ozzie. Clear hall of famer. Terrible offensive player at worst. Bad offensive player at best. Would be shocked if he had a 85 ops+
Yeah, you can't call him a terrible offensive player or even bad. If he didn't have the steals and that success rate, I might agree. But he stole a lot of bases and was thrown way less than Sandberg.
Gantry is right. Whitaker should not be on a top 100 list. I don't think I would have Schilling in a top 100 list either.
But seeing who is on the list so far, I surpringly have very very complaints about where players are being slated. Ozzie is too high though.
Ozzie 80 pct steal rate. 337 obp
Ryno 76 pct, 344 obp
I would have guessed a larger steal gap. Would have expected Ozzie in 370 range on obp
Did Sandburg steal many bases? I'd expect a pretty high percentage if you are sneaking an occasional base, catching teams by surprise, stealing off a guy with a slow delivery, etc.
Quote from: Nacho on 12/19/13, 12:04:27 PM
Did Sandburg steal many bases? I'd expect a pretty high percentage if you are sneaking an occasional base, catching teams by surprise, stealing off a guy with a slow delivery, etc.
Sandberg was a pretty good speed guy - led the league in triples in his MVP year (19!), stole 50 bases the next year, and was still good for 20 or more even in his bigger home run years.
Quote from: BeefMaster on 12/19/13, 12:36:48 PM
Quote from: Nacho on 12/19/13, 12:04:27 PM
Did Sandburg steal many bases? I'd expect a pretty high percentage if you are sneaking an occasional base, catching teams by surprise, stealing off a guy with a slow delivery, etc.
Sandberg was a pretty good speed guy - led the league in triples in his MVP year (19!), stole 50 bases the next year, and was still good for 20 or more even in his bigger home run years.
Holy shit that's a lot of triples. Stephen Drew had a dozen three years in a row when he was here and it was pretty impressive.
He's 20th all time in power/speed rating
344 total sb
To quote Gantry, you should get your head examined if you think Ozzie was better than Sandberg. I agree with Ryno, Nolan Ryan should be ranked better than Sandberg.
I've never been able to take Posnanski seriously because of that ridiculous photo of him in that old-timey Frank Sinatra hat that appeared in all of his articles he used to write in Sports Illustrated.
i think sometimes pitchers are overrated because they only effect 30 games a year, whereas a regular player would be in about 150+.
Yes, but the starting pitcher's impact on the outcome of the games that he appears in is much greater.
Also, that's not a very nice thing to say about Fathed.
Quote from: TβG on 12/23/13, 09:51:04 AM
i think sometimes pitchers are overrated because they only effect 30 games a year, whereas a regular player would be in about 150+.
I agree with this, but how do you feel about the older guys that pitched every third or fourth game?
Quote from: TempoGL on 12/24/13, 09:54:15 AM
Also, that's not a very nice thing to say about Fathed.
I was thinking the same thing. :'( Merry Christmas to you too, you bastard!
(http://www.sectalk.com/board/public/imported_images/files.sharenator.com/britney_alone_88u3_Who_is_the_most_emotional_Girls_or_guys-s300x218-83182-580.jpg)
But Fathed DID pitch almost every game last season, injuries aside.