Dwight Gooden turns 40 today. Man, it seems like he's been out of the league for quite some time. He could still be pitching too...
Discuss Gooden the RBI'er. How do rank him to the other fireballers in RBI? Above Clemens or Ryan?
Gooden has good shit for the long haul, but I rarely use New York...so I can't really say for sure. I do like him better than Clemens, though. But Ryan is pretty tough IMO.
As an ignorant straight-pitcher, gooden lacked the high-end fastball of a clemens or ryan. His FB just isn't terribly faster than his normal pitch and it doesn't surprise you enough. But like you my experience is very limited since I'm a straight-pitcher and rarely play with NY...
I prefer the Doc over Clemens and Ryan. Doc is my favorite right handed pitcher. Yeah, his heat may not be first tier, but it's pretty fucking close and I'm probably wrong on this (haven't looked up the stats,) but his changeup works much better than those other two.
I prefer both Clemens and Ryan over Doc--probably in that order.
my sentiments are the same as GlassJoe's.
Mainly due to the fact that I usually play Bo vs. NY (for revenge) and rock Gooden.
I rarely play with NY since I grew up hating that team with a passion, but I will say that I like Ryan over Clemens. Then again, I also hate Roger Clemens so who knows. My least favorite pitcher to hit against by far (even when playing the computer) is Fernando. That guy can throw curves in the dirt well into the game when everyone else is just throwing slow balls. It can be very frustrating, possibly even controller throw causing.
Doc should have been winning his 300th right around now, and closing out a HOF career. His 1985 season was one of the best ever for a pitcher. Amazing stats.
He snorts a better line than any rbi'er.
I never liked pitching with him. In those rare instances where the computer beat me (as a kid), it was usually when I was NY.
QuoteHe snorts a better line than any rbi'er.
IMHO, he isn't even the best coke snorter on his team...
Though Nick always called Gooden "Coke Nose", so he probably agrees with you...
Doc is better than Ryan and Clemens. Ryan gives up the long ball in case you have never noticed, great stamina, but bound to give up 3 runs when I am hitting off of him. Clemens is tough, but I find that Gooden can give you a better 7 inning effort than Clemens. Doc mixes it up well, good speed, decent movement, he is a real stud, not to mention that he is one of the better hitting pitchers in the game as well.
i chose gooden as my fisrt pitcher in the draft because of some crazy formula involving the unknown atributes as well as other known factors. i would say he's gotta be top five over all for player controlled games.
Quotenot to mention that he is one of the better hitting pitchers in the game as well.
Another blow to your concept of RBI as we know it:
http://dee-nee.com/rbi/faq.shtml#BESTHITPIT
Blyleven's world is crashing before him, he doesn't know what he believes.
And for the record (sorry Nightwulf, not intended to piss you off) I still think the quick throw is somwhow related to the BOP, though I don't believe any of the other wives tales. For everything else, I believe the science.
Quote from: ultimate7 on 11/17/04, 01:57:08 PM
Blyleven's world is crashing before him, he doesn't know what he believes.
And for the record (sorry Nightwulf, not intended to piss you off) I still think the quick throw is somwhow related to the BOP
I agree totally...this happened to me several times when playing yesterday. The only BOPs that I had were when trying to make a quick throw right as I made contact with the ball...sorry.
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I am going to make a stand here. Everybody can disagree with me if they want to, but as someone who loves the game with such a passion, and has played it so many times, you have to hear me out:
There is a reason why I have been unable to go along with these computer definitions of ratings and speed and power, etc. There is a quality here that is not tangible, for example, the game is in the 7th inning, you are down by one with a man on first. Now you can tell me that I should prefer Gladden to be on base because he is "faster" than Gibson, but my choice is Gibson. Why?? I have been there, I have seen Gibson take that base, I know he can do it. I think he can get a better jump than Gladden can, I just do.
Who do you like up there when you need a fly ball, or a bunt or whatever, you guys know. You have played the game enough to know there is a difference in a clutch situation between a Wally Backman and a Mike Aldrete. I have opponents that LOVE Joel Youngblood, swear by him, and then I watch in dismay as he rips a groundball past my third baseman for a double. The point is, RBI Baseball, the game as we know it, cannot be defined by these numbers, but can only be defined by human experience, what you have seen them do, what you KNOW they are capable of.
Let's bring it back to the central argument, pitchers hitting. There is no way, there is NO WAY, that you cannot tell me that Don Robinson on the Giants is not one of the best hitting pitchers in the game. I won't hear it. I have watched so many times as he ropes a slow roller that the shortstop cannot come up with...and it gets through. He can hit that blooper that you better not try and get to otherwise it will mean extra bases. I know this, and not from some numerical code placed inside a computer game, but because I know the game, I live for the game, and I love the game.
That is what R.B.I. is all about. Gantry can love Spielman, I can love Aldrete, it's OK. I just can't see the game being defined by simple numbers when we all know that the game is deeper than that, that there is a "Je ne sais quoi" quality to Tengen Field that makes you believe. "By the numbers", maybe you would never complete a 6 run comeback in the 9th inning, "by the numbers" maybe I would not have sent Blyleven out to the mound on that fateful day to pitch 9 amazing innings and secure my only no-hitter against a respected RBI player. The numbers should not have allowed that to happen, but it happened, it happened because I believe in R.B.I. Baseball as more than just a game.
Thank you.
Great post, I think this should be added to the FAQ or something. It is inspiring, it makes me want to play RBI.
I want to further note that I believe most of that post to be incorrect, but it is like seeing someone that truly believes in Santa Claus, even though you know SC doesn't exist, it still makes you happy
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 11/17/04, 04:17:04 PM
secure my only no-hitter against a respected RBI player.
A respected rbi player would have to be pretty drunk to be no hit.
Quote from: CurtFlood on 11/17/04, 04:08:42 PM
Quote from: ultimate7 on 11/17/04, 01:57:08 PM
Blyleven's world is crashing before him, he doesn't know what he believes.
And for the record (sorry Nightwulf, not intended to piss you off) I still think the quick throw is somwhow related to the BOP
I agree totally...this happened to me several times when playing yesterday. The only BOPs that I had were when trying to make a quick throw right as I made contact with the ball...sorry.
I just had 3 face knocks in a 4 inning game, and each came as I was trying to make a quick throw. The bop myth is one I'm really having trouble letting go of.
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 11/17/04, 04:17:04 PM
I am going to make a stand here. Everybody can disagree with me if they want to, but as someone who loves the game with such a passion, and has played it so many times, you have to hear me out:
I think we all applaude your passion, but just know that there are a good 10-20 people who regularly read this RBI board that have as much passion as you do...and I think that's fucking fantastic. :)
QuoteI have been there, I have seen Gibson take that base, I know he can do it. I think he can get a better jump than Gladden can, I just do.
If by "take that base," you mean steal, think again. I can throw out both Gladden and Gibson practically 100% of the time (as can most here)...as long as the pitcher isn't chucking 50 mph fastballs up there.
But Blyleven does bring up an interesting point about good leads. I don't know who among this board has noticed that each runner gets a varying sized lead (meaning, on pitch one Gibson's lead might be one step off of first base and on pitch two, his lead might be several steps off first base). I have always assumed that a guy like Coleman will get the great lead and a guy like Jack Clark will often get the short lead...but Nightwulf--is there anyway to determine how the size of the lead is determined?
Perhaps in Blyleven's defense, maybe Gibson gets the good lead more often than Gladden...?
Quote
Who do you like up there when you need a fly ball, or a bunt or whatever, you guys know.
I think you'll find that whomever you want up there in a bunt situation generally has a better contact rating...however, I don't think it makes much of a difference who is actually bunting (unless you're attempting a base hit); a successful bunt is really more dependent upon technique/execution of the bunt.
QuoteLet's bring it back to the central argument, pitchers hitting. There is no way, there is NO WAY, that you cannot tell me that Don Robinson on the Giants is not one of the best hitting pitchers in the game. I won't hear it.
Why does this crack me up? :) I'm not sure I've ever used Robinson to bat, in the 15+ years I've been playing RBI...okay, so I'm sure I have, but not enough to remember any of 'em.
QuoteThat is what R.B.I. is all about. Gantry can love Spielman, I can love Aldrete, it's OK.
You are correct on this; however, the "statistical" argument does not support the opposite of your statement, so it's a non-factor. All the statistical argument is saying is that with "all things being equal," these are the odds that x will happen (generally). This is so because human ability is heavily factored into the result of a 2 player RBI game. I think that is why the game is so loved by most of us (see your statement above--you are exactly right).
Quote
Thank you.
No, thank you. It's great to "see" such passion for the game of RBI...especially from newbies of the forums.
No_No is an oldie...he registered in '02
QuoteI don't know who among this board has noticed that each runner gets a varying sized lead (meaning, on pitch one Gibson's lead might be one step off of first base and on pitch two, his lead might be several steps off first base).
I've never noticed this before. I'm going to have to play a game or two on my lunch break to check this out.
It does seem like if you quick pitch, the runner doesn't get a full lead off, but that may just be in the pitcher/batter display and not be what really happens.
thanks for the props CurtFlood, I am old school, and just made a recent comeback, that's all.
I assume that you are a Cards fan, and I used the Cards last night, even winning a 10-0 slaughter rule against a semi-respected RBI player (I felt that since he turned off the NES as the final out was in the air on the previous game that he deserved the thrashing).
My question is, who do you put in the 3 hole? Sometimes I sub in Morris or Oquendo, I like both of them but I don't love them. Sometimes I leave Herr in that 3 spot, I love their 4-5-6, I hit back to back dongs with Mcgee-Pendleton last night, but can't get a good read on the three spot, please share your thoughts.
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 11/18/04, 10:49:16 AM
thanks for the props CurtFlood, I am old school, and just made a recent comeback, that's all.
Don't call it a comeback...I've been here for years...
--Mr. LL Cool J
QuoteI assume that you are a Cards fan, and I used the Cards last night, even winning a 10-0 slaughter rule against a semi-respected RBI player (I felt that since he turned off the NES as the final out was in the air on the previous game that he deserved the thrashing).
My question is, who do you put in the 3 hole? Sometimes I sub in Morris or Oquendo, I like both of them but I don't love them. Sometimes I leave Herr in that 3 spot, I love their 4-5-6, I hit back to back dongs with Mcgee-Pendleton last night, but can't get a good read on the three spot, please share your thoughts.
I say throw Lindeman in there. You need some back to back punch (Lindeman/Clark) in that weak line up...but for me, my line up depends on a few things:
1) in the 3 spot in the top of the first inning, are there two outs with the bases empty? If so, I stick with Herr and try to slap a base hit to set up Clark with a man on.
2) if Coleman/Smith get on, I throw Lindeman in the 3 hole...trying to get a good pitch bc the pitcher won't want to walk him to face Clark.
3) if I know my opponent doesn't intentionally walk people (every batter sees at least 1 good pitch), I put Lindeman in the 7 hole. It makes no sense if the pitcher will walk him to face Pena, but if not...
There you have it.
I usually leave Herr in for a couple of at-bats regardless of the situation. If both Vince and Ozzie get on, I might roll the dice with Blank and see what he can do.
Lindeman ALWAYS goes in the 7 hole. This is his natural spot in the order and he cleans up the bases when ET and Pendlesack get on.
Quote from: fknmclane on 11/18/04, 01:12:24 PM
I usually leave Herr in for a couple of at-bats regardless of the situation. If both Vince and Ozzie get on, I might roll the dice with Blank and see what he can do.
Lindeman ALWAYS goes in the 7 hole. This is his natural spot in the order and he cleans up the bases when ET and Pendlesack get on.
That's because you play slurve (and thus can't walk somebody)...but trust me, if I walked him to get to Pena everytime, you'd move him from the 7 hole.
I think Pena has some real pop for a catcher in the eight spot, I wouldn't be walking Lindeman to face Pena if I was on the mound.
.286, 10 hr?? he can drive a ball to the gap without a doubt.
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 11/18/04, 02:34:45 PM
I think Pena has some real pop for a catcher in the eight spot, I wouldn't be walking Lindeman to face Pena if I was on the mound.
.286, 10 hr?? he can drive a ball to the gap without a doubt.
Not that those are all that great of stats, but I think it's fair to say that player statistics do not equal quality RBI player (see Glen Davis)...and the opposite is true, too (see Wilfong, Lindeman, Spillman, etc)...
However, I also think that Pena can hammer a mistake pitch...but Lindeman can hammer both a mistake pitch and a pitch that hits its target (and Lindeman is more likely to crush a mistake pitch than Pena)...
That's not to take anything away from Pena (I think he's decent at best--I'd rank him slightly below/equal to Boone as far as 8 hole hitters go)...that is just to say that Lindeman is definitely better than Pena (in my opinion).
Blyleven, do you play online? I'd like to play against you sometime.
I don't play online, I have never tried it.
Call me a purist but I just like the classic NES version of RBI. I guess I should try it some time, is it really differnt?? You play with the keyboard?? Do you get to listen to the music??
I dunno, it just seems like a foreign concept to me.
I will be getting together though with Great Scott, GDavis and Dryden for some match ups in the near future, so we'll let you know how it goes.
You can use the keyboard, but most of us have a controller that we hook up to your computer (mine is similar to a PlayStation controller, while some have actual NES controllers). The game itself is exactly the same - you use a digital copy of the NES cartridge that is run by an emulator, which pretends to be the NES itself. See this FAQ question (http://dee-nee.com/rbi/faq.shtml#CPU) (and the ones near it) for more info.
I just bought something off ebay that allows me to use my Gamecube controller on the computer. I'm looking forward to trying it out since I haven't had a computer controller since before Windows came out.
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 11/18/04, 03:51:06 PM
I don't play online, I have never tried it.
Call me a purist but I just like the classic NES version of RBI. I guess I should try it some time, is it really differnt?? You play with the keyboard?? Do you get to listen to the music??
I dunno, it just seems like a foreign concept to me.
I will be getting together though with Great Scott, GDavis and Dryden for some match ups in the near future, so we'll let you know how it goes.
I was hesitant like you are, Blyleven. But then I got a NINTENDO controller that plugs into the back of my computer.
You can use the original NES version of RBI (that's what I like to use) and it's exactly the same...music, through the wall hrs, and everything!
I hightly suggest you give it a shot.
wow, that's thrilling, I will give it a go, as for now, I will stay with the glitchy NES system!!!
Thanks guys... :D