Gantry, as our faithful leader, I would like to challenge your logic on the Dee-Nee website....here goes:
For example, your advice for the NL starting lineup, you advise somebody to sub in all 4 pinch hitters in the top 8 roster spots...how can that be a good idea??
You leave 0 pinch hitters on the bench for when your pitcher comes up.
There is something to be said for bringing an Armas or a Hendricks in at an ideal point in the game rather than just making sure they get their 4 at bats per game. Know what I mean??
Remeber that Gantry plays straight pitch, so that changes things a bit.
While I agree with you to an extent, I would never go as far as not bringing in Armas for Spike Owen, the difference is way too big.
I would not sub all 4 for the NL all-stars.
An additional note:
That wasn't written by Gantry, it was Sperling, not that it makes much difference.
AHHH....my apologies, agreed though, a Spike Owen would never stay in the game, but maybe pinch hit Hendu and leave Armas for when you really need a homer
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 12/10/04, 04:09:30 PM
AHHH....my apologies, agreed though, a Spike Owen would never stay in the game, but maybe pinch hit Hendu and leave Armas for when you really need a homer
Or don't save him and hit 3 homers and ground into 2 double plays.
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 12/10/04, 03:30:55 PM
For example, your advice for the NL starting lineup, you advise somebody to sub in all 4 pinch hitters in the top 8 roster spots...how can that be a good idea??
Who do you leave in, then? In my opinion, you MUST go with this line up:
Raines
Guerrero
Murphy
Dawson
Davis
Schmidt
Kruk
Gwynn
See, if you save one of those, it makes sense that it'd be Gwynn (the "worst" of the 4 PHs)...but his biggest strength is slapping the ball btwn 3b and ss and legging out a base hit--which isn't an option with runners on (which is when you'd want to bring in a PH in the first place).
Okay, so perhaps because of that, you bench Kruk and start Gwynn. Now you have your worst PH in the line up AND a bum in the starting line up that should have been replaced. Who is that? It can't be Sandberg or Santiago, because you just can't break up the powerful combo of Raines, Guerrero, Murphy, Dawson, Davis, Schmidt...that's just too deadly. It can't be Galarraga, because if it is, the P will just walk people in front of him to get to Galarraga and his double play. It can't be Pedrique because that basically leaves you with two pitchers batting in a row...
I will cut my nut sack from my body before I sub anyone for Ryne Sandberg.
I will also agree that sandberg isn't the sharpest tool in the rbi shed.
Gwynn and Kruk don't offer enough to be subbed in, leave 2 of Sandberg. Santiago and Galarraga, save Kruk for 1st important PH.
Leave TWO of them?! That's shameful. Why keep TWO shitty players when you could have zero? ???
For the NL, you have no choice but to bring every pinch hitter in. If you play your cards right, your pitcher won't be in a situation where his at bat really matters.
Quote from: JoeDirt on 12/10/04, 11:07:16 PM
Leave TWO of them?! That's shameful. Why keep TWO shitty players when you could have zero? ???
I don't see how you can claim that Kruk and Gwynn aren't shitty?
Well, they aren't. They aren't studs, but I wouldn't say they are shitty, either. Gwynn is a good slap hitter (better than OSmith, Herr--whom are both generally not considered "shitty"). Kruk has some pop--unlike Galarraga and Pedrique. IMO, Galarraga can barely hit the ball in straight pitch, let alone curve. He's like the right handed version of Baines--should be very good, but just isn't.
Kruk the truck, however, can go yard on even a quality pitch--and not just in his 1st ab.
keep sandberg and benito in...sub murphy for Cancer Cat and Pedro G. for Pedrique. Keep Gwynn and Kruk until you are totally desperate...which should never happen since you're playing with an "All Star" team.
The answer to your question is that the only person that you HAVE to sub out is Pedrique. You can let Sandberg or Santiago hit, I actually would pinch hit Murphy in the 2 spot, leave Santiago, and bring in Guerrero when your pitcher is up later in the game.
That is so stupid. Leave Guerrero's bat out of the line up and get him MAYBE one at bat per game? I respect the opinions of others, but that just makes no sense, man! :D
I don't understand "saving" good players...I can see saving a guy like Sullivan...he's good for one at-bat (tops). But why bench a guy with multi-HR potential?
In principle, I understand what Blyleven is saying. It's a shitty feeling to be out of PHers in a situation late in the game when you need a big hit, and you're stuck with a pitcher or mediocre hitter at the plate. But, I think I fall on the side of the others overall. If you are managing your starting pitcher correctly, you should be able to get 6-7 innings out of him, meaning that you aren't going to be using a PH in the pitcher's spot before then.
Plus, I think that a good player knows how to make their pitcher a tough out (swinging bunts, weak grounders to third, etc.). And it's a team-by-team situation. As for the NL All-Star team, I do have some disagreements with Sperling's suggestions:
* I would use Guerrero and Murphy for Sandberg and Santiago. I can't have those two guys (Sandberg and Santiago) taking up valuable real estate at the front of the line-up when Guerrero and Murphy are riding the pine. I want to get my best hitters as many at-bats as possible, and if putting Guerrero and Murphy at two and three in the order results in an extra AB a game for Guerrero (versus batting him for Pedrique as Sperling suggests), then it's worth it.
* I actually would leave Gallarraga in at the seventh spot to start. I don't think that the difference between him and Gwynn or Kruk is that much more, and you can have at least one PH in reserve in case.
* Obviously, sub someone, anyone in for Pedrique. I would go with Gwynn since he is more likely to hit balls on the ground and test the infield, especially with his speed. But you could make a case for Kruk here too. Also, leaving Kruk on the bench means that when you do use him as a PHer, you'll someone that with the first AB bonus will have decent pop. Even with the bonus, Gwynn is still Punch & Judy.
Quote from: fightonusc on 12/13/04, 06:22:31 PM
ggests), then it's worth it.
* I actually would leave Gallarraga in at the seventh spot to start. I don't think that the difference between him and Gwynn or Kruk is that much more, and you can have at least one PH in reserve in case.
I think Kruk or Gwynn both make a ton of sense because they are a lot less likely to hit into the DP...Galarraga just sucks, but even besides that, he's 1) rightie, 2) slow, and 3) hits a lot of double play-eligible balls.
This is very dangerous, since with a 1-6 of Raines, Guerrero, Murphy, Dawson, Davis, Schmidt preceding him---potential for lots of baserunners!
QuoteEven with the bonus, Gwynn is still Punch & Judy.
Not to hijack the thread, but what do you mean by Punch & Judy? The Wikipedia Entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_and_judy) taught me something new, but I can't fit the context...
Quote from: JoeDirt on 12/13/04, 06:36:22 PM
Quote from: fightonusc on 12/13/04, 06:22:31 PM
ggests), then it's worth it.
* I actually would leave Gallarraga in at the seventh spot to start. I don't think that the difference between him and Gwynn or Kruk is that much more, and you can have at least one PH in reserve in case.
I think Kruk or Gwynn both make a ton of sense because they are a lot less likely to hit into the DP...Galarraga just sucks, but even besides that, he's 1) rightie, 2) slow, and 3) hits a lot of double play-eligible balls.
This is very dangerous, since with a 1-6 of Raines, Guerrero, Murphy, Dawson, Davis, Schmidt preceding him---potential for lots of baserunners!
I can make a case for Gwynn over Gallarraga - much, much more speed and a ridiculous contact rating. I can't make the case for Kruk, though. The only real upgrade you get is in speed, and I personally don't think that it's enough of a difference to justify not having at least one PH at some point in the game.
Quote from: Gantry on 12/13/04, 06:37:46 PM
QuoteEven with the bonus, Gwynn is still Punch & Judy.
Not to hijack the thread, but what do you mean by Punch & Judy? The Wikipedia Entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_and_judy) taught me something new, but I can't fit the context...
Basically, it just means a slap hitter with little power.
This site (http://www.baseballtips.com/slang.html) gives some context.
I think the best point I can make in regard to not saving great bats for a possible one PH is that RBI curve is totally a pitching man's game. I think it's a grave mistake to remove pitchers at times when they are at bat--more importantly, I think it's prudent to remove pitchers when they are done pitching, as a rule. The pitching takes priority over the batting opportunity.
I know people are going to say that if pitching is so important, then it's equally important to derail the pitching of the opponent--with a stud PH in an opportune time...but, I think that's backward logic.
Sandberg and Benito never, never, never see an at-bat for me. They have zero power. They suck. That's pretty much about it.
I'll leave the Big Cat in if he's facing a leftie. Otherwise, fucking gone.
Here's the thing about saving pinch hitters...if you're the National League, you shouldn't be playing past the fifth or sixth inning. You won't have a need for a pinch hitter because you should be running your opponent out of the park.
Besides, Kruk, Gwynn and Guerrero are all far better than Sandberg, Santiago and the Big Cat.
Basically, this comes down to who does you more good, Kruk or Gwynn. They're about equally useful, for different reasons. Guerrero and Murphy absolutely MUST get in for the whole game, and Pedrique's such a bitch that he HAS to be pinch-hit for, and Big Cat is so slow that it's the same.
One or both of Sandberg or Benito should come out. Usually, it's Sandberg for me. I either end up with:
Raines
Murphy
Sntago
Dawson
EDavis
Schmdt
Guerro
Kruk
or
Raines
Gwynn
Sntago
Dawson
EDavis
Schmdt
Murphy
Guerro
Just depends where you want your power... 1-2-3-4-5-6, or 4-5-6-7-8. Always good to have a big bopper up just before the pitcher anyway...
Quote from: JoeDirt on 12/13/04, 02:52:06 PM
That is so stupid. Leave Guerrero's bat out of the line up and get him MAYBE one at bat per game? I respect the opinions of others, but that just makes no sense, man! :D
Joe Dirt, you are disrespecting the logic of the worng RBI player, I come correct with the sticks in my hands. Perhaps you have never played a tight game where it comes down to pinch hit scenarios, perhaps you just play the computer, I don't know.
I do know that I would crush you in RBI.
I'm willing to bet that Joe Dirt is willing to put money on himself, maybe as much as $1000.
Blyleven - do you play 1 starter or 2 starters?
You're willing to bet on the whether or not someone is willing to bet on themselves? Dude, that's a serious gambling problem...
It's sure money, you want some action?
ultimate, I did win the most recent New York tournament, and you're gonna say that it's sure money???
You gotta be kidding me.
We play a best 2 out of 3 series, like the real game dictates. You use one starter in each game.
QuoteAlways good to have a big bopper up just before the pitcher anyway...
Except that your opponent would walk him to get to the pitcher, so he'd never get an AB.
I think Guerrero and Murphy should play the whole game, but I also refuse to remove Sandberg from the game. Santiago is PH-ed for, and I may give Gallaraga an AB, depending on how lucky I feel. I'd probably be more likely to put Guerrero in for Gallaraga, put Gwynn in for Pedrique, and save Kruk for a rainy day.
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 12/15/04, 02:07:40 PM
ultimate, I did win the most recent New York tournament, and you're gonna say that it's sure money???
You gotta be kidding me.
First of all, I said it is sure money that JoeD would bet on himself. But yes I do think JoeD can beat you though I wouldn't necessarily put money on it, I would like to play you sometime.
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 12/15/04, 01:54:41 PM
Joe Dirt, you are disrespecting the logic of the worng RBI player, I come correct with the sticks in my hands. Perhaps you have never played a tight game where it comes down to pinch hit scenarios, perhaps you just play the computer, I don't know.
I do know that I would crush you in RBI.
Okay, last things first.
You KNOW you'd crush me in RBI? That's interesting. I've invited you to our OH anything goes tourney, yet you haven't bothered to respond. If you're good enough to CRUSH me, then you can easily--EASILY--go home with a minimum of $600 in your pocket. Seems like you should be all over that one.
Next, I'm not disrespecting anybody. Let's not get all up-in-arms over RBI theory. These kind of talks are great and represent all that is good in the RBI forums.
I am certain that I do not need to explain my RBI resume to anybody, but since you sort of asked: I've been playing RBI competitively for 15 years. I never play the computer. By "never," I mean "NEVER." I have always felt that playing the computer sets bad habits for when playing another competitive human.
I truly invite and welcome you to our tournament. Be skepital if you must, but do yourself a favor and sign up for it. I did the very thing for the COTUT (a large tourney in Chicago) and had an absolute blast.
You can say that you "come correct with the stick in (your) hands," but that really doesn't mean a hell of a lot.
What I'm saying is that, in my opinion, it is very foolish to leave a mighty hitter like Guerrero on the bench for him to get at most, one AB. With NL, you are likely to have him come up in a bases full situation in the 2 or 3 spot anyway.
Now what the fuck, are you going to back up your statement that you would crush me in RBI (by joining our tourney)--or are you just making idle statements that you have no intention of making good?
If you're going to sing it, bring it!
Quote from: JoeDirt on 12/15/04, 03:28:47 PM
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 12/15/04, 01:54:41 PM
Joe Dirt, you are disrespecting the logic of the worng RBI player, I come correct with the sticks in my hands. Perhaps you have never played a tight game where it comes down to pinch hit scenarios, perhaps you just play the computer, I don't know.
I do know that I would crush you in RBI.
Okay, last things first.
You KNOW you'd crush me in RBI? That's interesting. I've invited you to our OH anything goes tourney, yet you haven't bothered to respond. If you're good enough to CRUSH me, then you can easily--EASILY--go home with a minimum of $600 in your pocket. Seems like you should be all over that one.
Next, I'm not disrespecting anybody. Let's not get all up-in-arms over RBI theory. These kind of talks are great and represent all that is good in the RBI forums.
I am certain that I do not need to explain my RBI resume to anybody, but since you sort of asked: I've been playing RBI competitively for 15 years. I never play the computer. By "never," I mean "NEVER." I have always felt that playing the computer sets bad habits for when playing another competitive human.
I truly invite and welcome you to our tournament. Be skepital if you must, but do yourself a favor and sign up for it. I did the very thing for the COTUT (a large tourney in Chicago) and had an absolute blast.
You can say that you "come correct with the stick in (your) hands," but that really doesn't mean a hell of a lot.
What I'm saying is that, in my opinion, it is very foolish to leave a mighty hitter like Guerrero on the bench for him to get at most, one AB. With NL, you are likely to have him come up in a bases full situation in the 2 or 3 spot anyway.
Now what the fuck, are you going to back up your statement that you would crush me in RBI (by joining our tourney)--or are you just making idle statements that you have no intention of making good?
If you're going to sing it, bring it!
If you really wanted people to show up for your tournament you wouldn't have it in Ohio.
What, the midwest is too centalized of a location in the nation?
Typical NYer response....just for that, you're getting the face I KNOW YOU HATE: ::)
LOL!!!
JoeD, I appreciate that you have the same passion for RBI as I do, Ohio is a little tough for a destination for me to get to but I will not use that as an excuse.
Haven't we all been playing competitively for 15 years though??
GDavis, when are we getting toogether for some RBI??? My NES is working great thanks to Gantry's rubbing alcohol tip on the cartridge.
Joe, I don't think anything will be settled to sit down for a tourney.
This is an outrage. Get your fucking NY crew together and come out for the tourney. It's only a 7 hour drive...and if you can't miss work to drive to/from here, then you obvioiusly make money and can sack up and buy a plane ticket. You dicks! :)
Joe, those of us in NYC don't own cars, we don't use them
Do you guys use airplanes?
maybe you should visit the Big Apple, seems like you could use a little exposure to the nightlife of the big city
I've been there many a time...
If you guys ever have a tourney like what we're having here, I'm all over coming out.
We're having a 16 man, $100 entry fee tourney. As long as OH is an obsticle for you to attend, I can't/won't believe you're as serious/good of an RBI player as a lot of people on this board...(fightonusc is coming out from CA, for crying out loud).
Speaking of which...
What's the format going to be for the tourney. Would games start Friday night or Saturday morning. Helps in planning my flights...
Definitely Sat morning, so that people don't necessarily have to miss work on Friday.
The bracket that we are using is the same as the one the COTUT used:
http://www.rbibaseballcotut.com/brackets/R.B.I.%203%20Baseball%20Tournament%20Brackets.pdf
Good. Even if I take Friday off an leave Friday morning, with the time change I still basically wouldn't get into Ohio until the early evening at best. This makes it a lot easier. (Although I wish it wasn't a week before July 4th, since I always take that week off for a family vacation...)
That's a good point...we didn't really think about that. I'd like to move the date to a time when Ultimate and BEEF JERKY (must be shouted, alla pool_stroke) can make it--but I assume that no time will work for them since they are having a baby this summer (yes--they are having a baby together).
...so we're not moving the time. I fear that if we do, then too many people will be afraid to commit to travel arrangements...
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 12/15/04, 04:21:24 PMThe only natural way to play RBI is the classic best 2 out of 3 series that RBI itself came up with....best out of five???? RIDICULOUS!
Sounds like you're a bit quick with the reset button, too - the original RBI had best of 7 series, like the World Series. I use to play those all the time with my elementary school RBI buddy.
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 12/15/04, 04:21:24 PM
woah, woah, woah, what is this best of five, best of seven stuff??
If you were to do that you would have to reset the NES after each game which would take away all momentum between games?!?!?!
And how can you manage starting pitchers???
The only natural way to play RBI is the classic best 2 out of 3 series that RBI itself came up with....best out of five???? RIDICULOUS!
We do that in order to give the ability to have all teams used. As it is, in the 3 game series, it's almost always Bos v Det, Cal v SF, Min v NY...
Plus, it's more fun to play a lot of games. If we do all 3 game series, the tourney could/would be over in an afternoon unless it's like 5x elimination or something...
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 12/15/04, 04:21:24 PM
woah, woah, woah, what is this best of five, best of seven stuff??
If you were to do that you would have to reset the NES after each game which would take away all momentum between games?!?!?!
And how can you manage starting pitchers???
The only natural way to play RBI is the classic best 2 out of 3 series that RBI itself came up with....best out of five???? RIDICULOUS!
Byleven, note the tourney format allows for 2 Starters to be used in each game, this is also different from the format I am used to playing
That is correct. That's how the COTUT was played. Before hearing of the COTUT, I had never used the 2 SP rule. My buddy and I started using it months before the COTUT just to prepare for it...
However, I'm not a believer in the 2 SP system....although I am proficient in either way...
Quote from: Blyleven_No-No on 12/15/04, 03:41:29 PM
GDavis, when are we getting toogether for some RBI??? My NES is working great thanks to Gantry's rubbing alcohol tip on the cartridge.
I'm free all next week after work. Lemme know when is good for you.
Quote from: GDavis on 12/15/04, 07:16:12 PM
I'm free all next week after work. Lemme know when is good for you.
Are you on some sort of work release program or something?
JoeD, I'm fucking coming. I've got six months to practice. Then I'm flying home with six hundo in my pocket. ;)
West Coast RBI in the hizzouse!!!
Sorry.
Expect my attendance as well (I'll call in sick if I have to)
Can you numb nutz please also post this on the "cousin to the COTUT" thread? I'm trying to keep that up top!
Thanks....!