Without looking up team rosters, what is the most recent year in which no RBI players have appeared in the World Series?
???
Good question. I'm way to lazy to cheat anyway, I'd think that it would pre-date RBI, cuz I think we've had at least one each year since the game came out. I'll guess 1974.
This is easy to narrow down - there was no World Series in 1994, so no RBI players appeared in it (he said "which year", not "which World Series"). I'm thinking, though, that it could be '97 - I don't believe the Marlins and Indians had all that much for old guys, although I can't remember much of the Marlins' roster at that time.
1997 Indians had Kevin Mitchell and Julio Franco on their teams at some point, though I'm not sure if they made the World Series roster:
http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/CLE/1997.shtml (http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/CLE/1997.shtml)
Let's see...
2003: NYY v. FL: Clemens (NYY)
2002: ANA v. SF: Santiago (SF)
2001: NYY v. AZ: Clemens (NYY)
2000: NYY v. NYM: Clemens (NYY)
1999: NYY v. ATL: Clemens (NYY)
1998: NYY v. SD: Gwynn (SD)
1997: CLE v. FL: Seitzer (CLE) or Franco (CLE) if one of them pinch-hit
1996: NYY v. ATL: Key (NYY)
1995: ATL v. CLE: Pena (CLE)
1994: No series held
So I guess the direct answer to your question is 1994 (the most recent year in which no RBI players have appeared in the World Series). Maybe you want to ask the most recent World Series in which no RBI players have appeared?
(Also I did use a list of World Series winners and losers to help me, but not the rosters. You only forbade looking up rosters, not which teams were involved.)
Quote from: Gantry on 10/22/03, 11:20:20 AM
1997 Indians had Kevin Mitchell and Julio Franco on their teams at some point, though I'm not sure if they made the World Series roster:
http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/CLE/1997.shtml (http://www.baseballreference.com/teams/CLE/1997.shtml)
After looking it up (grr...) neither Franco or Mitchell had a plate appearance in the WS. However, Kevin Seitzer (also on the Cleveland roster) went 0-1.
Source:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0112253.html (http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0112253.html)
And to go a little further back:
1993 - Toronto (Molitor, Morris) vs Philly (Dykstra, Kruk)
1992 - Toronto (Morris, Candy) vs Atlanta (Pendelton)
1991 - Atlanta (Pendelton, Heep) vs Minnesota (Kirby, Hrbek)
1990 - Cincy (Hatcher, Davis) vs Oakland (McGwire, Canseco)
So not counting 1994, there was no series in the 90s that didn't include an RBI'er...
Note - I didn't include all RBI'ers on the above list, just picked a couple...
Ah, what the fuck!
1989 - San Fran (Clark, Mitchell) vs Oakland (McGwire, Canseco)
1988 - Dodgers (Gibson, Heep) vs Oakland (guess who?)
1987 - RBI Year
1986 - RBI Year
1985 - St. Louis (Jack Cleck, Herr) vs KC (Brett, Sheridan)
1984 - Padres (Gwynn) vs Detroit (Trammell)
1983 - Philly (Schmidt) vs Baltimore (Ripken)
1982 - St. Louis (Hernandez) vs Milwaukee (Molitor)
1981 - Dodgers (Lopes) vs Yankees (Randolph)
1980 - Philly (Schmidt) vs KC (Brett)
So the 80s are also chock-full of RBI'ers
1993: TOR v. PHI: Dykstra (PHI)
1992: TOR v. ATL: Morris (TOR)
1991: MIN v. ATL: Morris (MIN)
1990: OAK v. CIN: McGuire (OAK)
1989: OAK v. SF: McGuire (OAK)
1988: OAK v. LA: Gibson (LA)
1987: MIN v. STL: Coleman (STL)
1986: BOS v. NYM: Clemens (BOS)
1985: KC v. STL: Brett (KC)
1984: DET v. SD: Trammell (DET)
That was the first WS I was baseball-conscious for... any takers for prior to 1984?
On to the 70s:
1979 - Pirates (Madlock) vs Baltimore (DeCinces)
1978 - Dodgers (Lopes) vs Yankees (Randolph)
1977 - see 1978
1976 - Reds (Youngblood) vs Yankees (Randolph)
1975 - Reds (Nobody) vs Red Sox (Burleson)
1974 - Dodgers (Lopes) vs A's (Potatoes)
1973 - Mets (Nobody) vs A's (Potatoes)
1972 - Reds (Nobody vs A's (Potatoes)
1971 - Pirates (Nobody vs Orioles (Grich)
1970 - Reds (Nobody) vs Orioles (Grich)
Wow! Now keep in mind that I'm only looking at the rosters throughout the year, Sam or someone else will have to insure that they were on the WS roster...
Lets keep going:
1969 - New York Mets (Ryan) vs Orioles (None)
1968 - Cardinals (None) vs Tigers (None)
Dah Nah!! Keep in mind that the Dick Schofield who played on St. Louis in 1968 was the elder Schofield....
So assuming that Grich was on the WS roster in 70 & 71, 1968 was the last World Series that didn't include an RBI'er.
This game amazes me more and more each day...
Wow - 35 years that RBI players have been in the Series. That puts a lot of pressure on Ellis, Benito, and Jesse for next year.
Good job with the question! As many of you pointed out, I phrased the question poorly leading 1994 to be the correct answer. I meant to say which World Series was the last one to have no RBIers involved. Unfortunately I checked baseball-reference and Grich didn't appear in the WS in 1971, making that the last year the Series didn't feature a Tengen vet. Hopefully the Mets with Johnny Franco will make it next year to extend the streak!
Does baseball reference have the rosters or just the box scores? Is it possible Grich was on the roster but didn't get an AB? 1971 is still impressive, but I'd like to go to the 60s...
And this will get added to the FAQ today...
Quote from: Gantry on 10/22/03, 02:43:27 PM
Does baseball reference have the rosters or just the box scores? Is it possible Grich was on the roster but didn't get an AB? 1971 is still impressive, but I'd like to go to the 60s...
The question was "made an appearance" and Grich did not have an appearance at the plate or the field in the Series. He only played in 7 regular season games in 1971, and 30 games in 1970 and appears to have been left off the WS roster in both years.
How about this BBS post calling for Grich to be in the HOF (http://insiders3.ezboard.com/fanaheimangelsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=127.topic)!
Who would've known there would be such heated debate about Grich to the HOF.
Now the Larry Herndon debate, that's something I want to be part of.
On that note, I just picked up Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743227220/qid=1066955581/sr=8-4/ref=sr_8_4/103-9451867-8964655?v=glance&n=507846) and it lists Grich as the 12th best second baseman of all time, just ahead of Sweet Lou. Color me surprised....
Awesome book BTW, barely touched it so far but it'll be a source for decades to come...
I found a quote from baseballlibrary.com saying that Grich never reached the World Series... so he must have been left off the roster both years. Good call with the Historical Baseball Abstract, its definitely one of the coolest baseball books out there.
Interesting thing I found while checking out Bobby Grich's World Series status: In 1974 he set the record for best fielding percentage by a second baseman in MLB history, with .995. His record was tied in 1980, but in 1985 he regained it with a .997. The player who tied him with a .995 fielding percentage at second base in 1980? None other than Rob Wilfong, his future Tengen teammate!
I too was suprised to see Grich so high in the Abstract, that sort of rating should make him a potential HOF, but unfortunately it won't. Though hopefully arcade RBIers Ron Santo will be selected next time veterans comittee chooses.
Another RBI veteran (and longtime Cub) will hopefully make it next HOF selection: My all-time hero, Ryne Sandberg. I haven't read James' abstract, but I'd be surprised if Ryno isn't in the top 5 second basemen of all-time, especially when you consider the lack of decent 2Bs during the 80's. He won an MVP, led the league in homers and triples once each, won about 10 Gold Gloves, stole a ton of bases, set the record for homers by a second baseman (yeah, Wrigley helped, and Kent will overtake him, but he broke it fairly handily, during a time of mediocre homerun output), led the majors in all-star voting a couple times, and led the Cubs to their first two division titles. I think people are holding his abrupt retirement and not-so-great unretirement against him, forgetting the 10 years that he was one of the NL's best players.
Ryne and his family live here in the Valley and at the time of his retirement there were a lot of rumors going around. I heard his wife was a ho-bag slut and Ryne had to quit to keep her out of the pants of other men. But that's just what I hear. I'd of killed her instead of retiring. OJ got a way with it.
I too am a huge Sandberg, and I belive James had him ranked 7th. Too high IMHO but I've debated Sandberg's merits all too much to get into it again....
Joe Morgan said it best about the Hall of Fame. If you even have to ask if a guy belongs, should he really get in? So if you have to give a ten minute argument as to why Ryno belongs, then he doesn't. I personally think he's in.
But let me mention another RBI alum who I believe should also be a Hall of Famer: Donnie Baseball. Kirby Puckett is in the Hall of Fame. Their stats are almost identical and yet I doubt the great Donnie Baseball will make it.
There is no doubt that Ryno belongs, probably the best offensive and defensive 2B of the 80s. Joe Morgan says a lot of things I don't agree with...
Mattingly and Puckett aren't that close, which is surprising. At his peak Mattingly was better, but he really had only 6 great seasons the rest is unimpressive. Had he not hurt himself (I think it was his back?) he would probably have been better...
That theory on the reason for Sandberg's retirement is one of the funniest things I've ever heard. I'll have to mention that theory to another Sandberg fan I know; he'll get a kick out of it. Also, I'm always looking for a good excuse to use the term "ho-bag".
As for Donnie Baseball, I'm with Gantry - his peak was too short. It's kind of a Roger Maris situation - great peak, but not enough quality apart from it. I do feel bad for the guy, though, playing all those years and missing World Series appearances by one year each direction (he started in '82 and ended in '95). Puckett had a longer productive career than Mattingly, but he's a borderline case, and he got in more for his image than anything - he wouldn't have made it if the sexual assault allegations would've come out a year earlier.
One last thing - I've read a few things by Joe Morgan on ESPN, and I don't believe I've agreed with a single word he's said. He has tendency to greatly overrate players he played with and/or knows personally and underrate everyone else, so I take anything he says with about a ton of salt grains.
I think I've been quiet long enough on this. Without a doubt Sandberg should be in the Hall of Fame. There was no one even close to him in defense or offense while he played. I also need to point out that reading about his ho-bag wife was hysterical. I don't think I've laughed that hard in a long time. She should have definitely dumped her. He's Ryno...he could get any piece of ass he wishes. And to comment on Joe Morgan - he's a retard. All he ever talks about is how great he was and how great the Big Red Machine was. He sucked and they sucked. I can only hope for his death to come really soon.
I'm glad you all enjoyed the info about Ryno's wife. I'm not exactly sure how they're doing now but I'm pretty sure he saved the day. Does a player's wife get someone into the RBI HOS? Anyway, as Kramer said, "story like that has gotta be true."
I'm very surprised to hear all the Joe Morgan resentment. I don't think he's that bad. He's actually one of the more knowledgeable color guys out there. But he does tend to toot his own horn.
As for the Donnie Baseball thing, can someone post career stats of Kirby and Donnie head to head? I'd love to see it. What's that site again?
http://www.baseballreference.com (http://www.baseballreference.com) is the website and it's a doozy. Puckett and Mattingly were very similar in stats - in fact Puckett's most similar batter by the baseballreference rankings was Mattingly. It's just that Mattingly burned very brightly for 6 years and was pedestrian for the rest...
Puckett should definitely be in the HOF, the big beef was the hokey first-ballot writer-testosterone thing that goes on. 10 All-Star appearances in 12 year and has the highest career batting average for a right-hander since Joe Dimmagio. Though I think Edgar or someone else broke that recently. And as we remember was quite clutch in World Series play.
First ballot who knows, but overall definitely. Plus he's from Chicago and is a second ballot Chicago Pervert Hall of Famer after R. Kelly
No one is more of a pervert than the King of Golden Showers, R Kelly. Parents hide thier 5th graders just at the mention of his name. Sick fuck. Here's to hoping he gets his fair share of golden showers, pearl necklaces, and hot beef injections during his stint in a federal pen.
Quote from: Gantry on 10/23/03, 07:31:42 PM
On that note, I just picked up Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743227220/qid=1066955581/sr=8-4/ref=sr_8_4/103-9451867-8964655?v=glance&n=507846) and it lists Grich as the 12th best second baseman of all time, just ahead of Sweet Lou. Color me surprised....
Awesome book BTW, barely touched it so far but it'll be a source for decades to come...
Funny, I do not own this book and don't really remember reading it. Think I got it for Zorba or my dad for a holiday, but it certainly hasn't been a source...
I remember also being suprised to see Grich so high, though I do own the book and remember reading it.