BOP discussion revisited

[Gantry]

Decided to start a new thread about the BOPs in RBI since the last one got too long and acrimonious...

Per nightwulf's suggestion, I have finally begun dipping into the code for RBI - specifically the routines that check for and increase your error (BOP) total.  I'll give a semi-technical explanation below, but I now am pretty confident that fast throws do not cause BOPs.  There is simply no place in the code for it to happen...

In the ROM for RBI, there is but one place where the number of errors is increased.  The only way to get there (for the most part) is to jump to a special "increase error" subroutine.   After searching through the whole ROM, I found two places where they go to said routine.  The first one nightwulf documented thoroughly in the previous thread, the second one I just combed through personally (though nightwulf checked it as well).  It's pretty much the spot that checks if you hit a wall with a throw and the details are in the attached text file.  In both places there are zero checks for buttons or any joystick input....

Does this mean it's impossible for a fast throw to cause a BOP?  No, but it's highly unlikely.  They could concievably have jumped into the other two BOP checks, but that makes no sense when they can jump to the BOP code directly.  So for now I'm in the "fast throws do not cause BOPs" camp and will be testing it out thoroughly with my next set of games.  So what have we learned?

• Each team has their own "BOP Percentage"
• Detroit is the worst fielding team, but not by much
• Fast throws do not cause BOPs
• The pitcher (or any other fielder) is no more prone to BOPs

Strange, but true.  PS - My research was done independently to nightwulfs, so he wasnt brainwashing me.  I just looked at the facts myself and came to (at least for me) rather straightforward conclusion...

Discussion is welcome, but lets keep it civil....

[Shooty]

Hey Gantry...can you or Nightwulf clear up this comment made by Nightwulf in the other thread:

"I'm done with this. If anyone's interested in trying to take it further, I'm at the point where I've identified $DDD8 as the first line of executable code that runs when a player is about to touch the ball, but only if the play is "eligible" for a BOP (that is, the ball has left the bat but not yet touched a wall or another fielder). Set a breakpoint there and follow the code. It's fairly straightforward."

Specifically where he mentions that the play is only eligible for a BOP if it hasn't touched another fielder or the wall.  I played a game this week where the centerfielder had his back up against the wall on a long fly ball.  The fly ball hit the wll just above the fielder's head and came down on him and a BOP occured.  

[nightwulf]

Specifically where he mentions that the play is only eligible for a BOP if it hasn't touched another fielder or the wall.  I played a game this week where the centerfielder had his back up against the wall on a long fly ball.  The fly ball hit the wll just above the fielder's head and came down on him and a BOP occured.  

Ah, error on my part then. I didn't trace code to determine the conditions of whether a play can "BOP" or not, but relied on what I thought they were.

Correct wording would probably be "if the ball has not touched the ground or another fielder after leaving the bat" then.

Nightwulf

[JoeDirt]

Correct wording would probably be "if the ball has not touched the ground or another fielder after leaving the bat" then.

You can bop a ball that's hit the ground, though...probably just mis-worded...and ground ball can be bopped.

[ultimate7]

Hey Gantry...can you or Nightwulf clear up this comment made by Nightwulf in the other thread:

"I'm done with this. If anyone's interested in trying to take it further, I'm at the point where I've identified $DDD8 as the first line of executable code that runs when a player is about to touch the ball, but only if the play is "eligible" for a BOP (that is, the ball has left the bat but not yet touched a wall or another fielder). Set a breakpoint there and follow the code. It's fairly straightforward."

Specifically where he mentions that the play is only eligible for a BOP if it hasn't touched another fielder or the wall.  I played a game this week where the centerfielder had his back up against the wall on a long fly ball.  The fly ball hit the wll just above the fielder's head and came down on him and a BOP occured.  

Just to clarify, you can certainly BOP a ball after it hits the wall, I saw it happen in a 2 player game on Sunday.  I hit one off the top of the CF wall, my opponent was standing against the wall it hit the wall and then when he caught it off the wall there was a BOP.

[Wilfong]

If it's possible to get a BOP after the ball hits the wall, why wouldn't it be possible to get a BOP on a throw to first? Would anyone like to see that happen? I think I would, I'd take the tradeoff of being pissed when it happened to me to see it happen to my opponent.

[nightwulf]

Jesus fucking christ.

After the ball leaves the bat, before it touches another fielder, before the ball comes to a complete stop on it's own or rebounds off of a wall while rolling on the ground.

How about that?

Nightwulf

[broiler]

fast throws do cause bops and i am currently preparing a thesis.....

[RedBarron]

Jesus fucking christ.

After the ball leaves the bat, before it touches another fielder, before the ball comes to a complete stop on it's own or rebounds off of a wall while rolling on the ground.

How about that?

Nightwulf

hell yeah!

[Gantry]

I love Salty Nightwulf...

[nightwulf]

[Gantry]

I used to eat the Mr. Salty sticks all the time as a kid, pretended they were cigarettes...

[Big Hath]

"These pretzels are making me thirsty."

[fknmclane]

"These pretzels are making me thirsty."

They really are the saltiest (and best) pretzels EVER.

[TβG]

fast throws do cause bops and i am currently preparing a thesis.....

dude, i explained this to you face to face.  EVERYBODY tries to quickthrow EVERYTIME.  so if it really caused bops, bops would happen EVERYTIME.  post pics of your beltbuckle with your thesis though, i'd be happy to read it.

[broiler]

the thing is that i know when i make the fast throw to soon, i can just feel it when i make the mistake.  and more often then not, those result in BOPs.  i am still ironing out the kinks of my study, which will soon be posted.

[ultimate7]

the thing is that i know when i make the fast throw to soon, i can just feel it when i make the mistake.  and more often then not, those result in BOPs.  i am still ironing out the kinks of my study, which will soon be posted.

I know that feeling it really seems to up the likelihood, it's like shit I pushed too early, and then you are relieved when there is no BOP

[OctoFranco]

You guys are a bunch of superstitious nuts.

No way, no how does quick-throwing increase boppitude.  I quick-throw EVERY TIME and I get outs as a result, not bops.  Actually, the only time I don't quick-throw is when turning a DP at second since throwing too fast there really can fuck you up, but that's not a bop situation.

I see no evidence for this.  Although Kips does get an inordinate amount of bops no matter what team he plays with, so maybe there is something else to the picture...

[ultimate7]

Quick throwing itself isn't the problem, it's trying to throw before you field

[OctoFranco]

Quick throwing itself isn't the problem, it's trying to throw before you field

I suppose I have good timing then.

But, assuming alcohol consumption adversely affects timing, shouldn't bops on average go up the drunker one plays?  I have not noticed such a phenomenon.  Then again I was always drunk at the time.

Also according to this theory, bops would be more likely to be made on fielded grounders than on fielded pop-ups (presuming the fielder generally has no reason to try to rush a throw after catching a pop-up, whereas the fielder taking a grounder does).  I have likewise noticed no such phenomenon.