San Fran's Pitching Staff

[GreatScott]

I was reading through the team breakdowns the other day and noticed that there is no mention of the Giants pitching staff.  Its a shame too because I'm starting to think they might have the best on in RBI.  

Krukow has really good movement 12/7 and a great sinker (second only to Scott).  Some consider him the best in the game.

Reuschel has a very good drop and excellent (maybe the best) movement in the game.  I think hes a 10 and 9 in right/left.  I cant think of another pitcher who can move the ball so well both ways.  

Garrets has a top tier heater and a good sink.  Granted his movement is poor but you cant have everything.  He is still a very usable pitcher

Robinson has decent heat and some nice movement and sink.  He doesnt have anything special but he has the stuff to get outs.  Probably as good a closer as any in RBI

SF does have some pitfalls.  The combined staf has only 100 in endurance which is tied for lowest in the game.  That sucks big time.  They also lack a lefty which is definently a bad thing.  Still I think (just like in real baseball) people overplay the left v righty thing in terms of matchups.  I think good pitchers get outs.  SF has four of them.  
Overall I think SF has the best overall staff in RBI.  I invite all detractors to describe a better staff.  

[Gantry]

Scott:

Good anlysis on the SF staff.  I'm a big fan of both Krukow on Big Daddy.  That writieup is ancient and one of th next things to go on the site.  Most of the potsie writeups are incomplete and a good 4 years old now...

[JoeDirt]

They also lack a lefty which is definently a bad thing.  Still I think (just like in real baseball) people overplay the left v righty thing in terms of matchups.  I think good pitchers get outs.  

GScott...what style of RBI do you play?  Speaking as a curve player, I disagree with you pretty staunchly on this one.  I think an average lefty is as good as a good righty--in curve.  The reason is simple; in curve, it is much easier to hit off of a pitcher who is the same hand as the batter--and there are a ton more righty batters than lefty batters.  So by default, pitching lefty is better because of the many righty batters that you get to face.

I think this is huge.  For example, Viola is probably considered an average lefty...but I think he pitches as well as, if not better than, Gooden--a "good" righty.

[fknmclane]

SF does have a great staff, but I live and die by lefties.  You gotta have one.  This fact kills them.

Krukow does have a nasty drop, but I find it to be far too inconsistent.  Chubbs routinely tees off on the floaters.

Big Daddy is great simply because he was a giant fat ass.  I don't think he really does anything spectacular, but he does get the job done.

Garrelts is nothing but heat, which is a good contrast coming immediately after Krukow.  But after two batters, the opponent usually catches on.  I will say he has one of the better drops among the relievers when he's on.  Unfortunately, like Krukow, I find his drop to be there one minute and gone (literally) the next.

Robinson is a sack.

[japetus462]

I would take Detroit, Boston or California over San Fran's pitching staff.

[GreatScott]

Boston huh.  Im sorry but thats crazy.  Sure Clemens is good but the rest suck.  Dont tell me Hurst is effective because hes a lefty.  Hes got a decent drop but very little movement.  Translation: BUM.  Im not even gonna comment on Stanly ... let alone the worst of the worst; Calvin Schiraldi.  

Detriot is also totally weak.  Alexander is decent, Morris is poor.  Hernandez sucks ass (i dont care that hes a lefty) and King is equally lame.  Totally overblown power stats is what makes that team effective.  if they give up less runs its because Detriot tends to blow teams awy in less than 9.  

California has the best staff stamina but they just dont have the stuff.  Just compare their numbers with the SF staff.  They dont have nearly the same movement or drop.  + they have no lefty !!! Top win games that staff needs Reggie like no other.  

Furthermore even if the whole lefty v righty match-up stuff was crucial ... your argument still wouldnt hold water.  Take a look at the lineups of all the teams.  Most of them are pretty evenly split or mostly lefty once all subs are used.   Houston and STL are almost all lefty ... and you can walk their righties (who are incidentally their power hitters) if it really bothers you.  California, New York and Detriot are mostly lefty ... so i dont see the problem there either.  That leaves Boston and Minnesota.  Yes they are predominently righty so I guess they would match up well.

Read next box

[GreatScott]

What is true of RBI is that most pitchers are righty.  Only STL and NY have a split squad but neither team is considered that good by die hard RBIers.  Why?  Because they cant hit and having two lefties means dick.  Good pitchers are just like good hitters.  Their stats do the talking.  Which hand they play with is not that important.  If it were, everyone would be Boston or Min to take advantage of the constant righty righty pitching match up.  Conversely nobody would be Detriot or Cali because they are so lefty dominated and would get schooled by righties.  but people do because those teams have the most power and can score.  San Fran has the staff with the best stuff.  lacking a righty is just not that important

[GreatScott]

lacking a lefty rather

[JoeDirt]

That's just your opinion...I do not agree with it.

How do you play, GScott?  Curve, straight, slurve...?

Also, you are incorrect about a lot of things you said.  For one, curve players do often take Bos bc they have a lot of righties...not just bc they are powerful.  I am positive I can stimey Boston's roster with Tudor or Ojeda...I might not win every game, but I will in large part factor out their excessive righty power...

[GreatScott]

i play anything goes pitching.  you can do whatever you want with the ball any pitch.  dont know the technical rbi term for that but thats what i play.  

[ultimate7]

I agree with GreatScott, in that I don't get very caught up in what way a pitcher throws.

I'm suprised at how most curve players prefer left handed pitcher for a right handed hitter.

[JoeDirt]

I'm suprised at how most curve players prefer left handed pitcher for a right handed hitter.

Trust me--you'll find out in about a month (COTUT)!  

GScott--where are you located and are you considering the COTUT (Championship of the Universe Tournament)

Here's a link, in case this is the first you've heard of it:

www.rbibaseballcotut.com/

[GreatScott]

i live in ny so its not really possible.  Id love to play some hard core RBI because all my friends suck at it aruond here.  Im up for net play ... and proving that pitching stuff supercedes left/right.  

[Wilfong]

I'm so bored at work that I'm looking at all these super old posts. You guys are right - pretty much everything RBI has been covered.
Anyways, I think Houston has the best staff - curve, slurve, straight, whatever. Ryan is dominant, Scott is good and Kerfield, to me, is the best reliever in the game. Those three alone make them the best, I think the closer spot is traditionally weak, but Smith is ok. St. Louis might get my vote for second best staff. In slurve, Tudor is brilliant.

[OzzieLongBall]

I agree with JoeDirt completely.. as a curve only player, I feel you cannot overestimate the importance of knowing and using righty/lefty matchups... Which staff you feel is the best I think is totally preference, and my preference is St Louis... Tudor is murderous in curve... Also for those of you skeptical of the advantage of an opposite handed pitcher, look no further than when your pitcher begins to tire... a tired pitcher can still K/Jam an opposite hitting batter, but has virtually no chance against a same hand batter.. I'll go as far as to say this: when my buddy is california, and since he pinch hits with Jones for Pettis, i actually start Worrell instead of Tudor... I do this because I know i can get 1 solid inning out of him, and I like the righty going against Jones/Joyner/Jackson.. (and just being careful with Doug D) I like this better than having to use Worrell later in the game, and not knowing what part of the lineup he will face.. Altho they are FAR inferior, I would rather not have Worrell face Grich, Hendreck and Boone/Burelson, all righties... It is true that the top pitchers get outs no matter what, however when you get to the middle tier guys, the advantage of being able to go L/R (which Worrell and Dayley give you, although I don't trust either of them too much) is enormous... that is why San Fran in my mind cannot be the top staff in curve-style..

[Gantry]

Great analysis Ozzie, good to luck this curve stuff...

Just so I understand - is the key to opposite-handed pitchers in your opinon is that it's easier to break the ball outside?   In straight it's best to pitch outside, is this generally true in curve as well?  

[ultimate7]

I believe the opposite pitcher/batter theory is that you pitch outside and try to double curve the pitch so that it just nips the outside corner  (start on the outside of the mound)

[Gantry]

So outside is the key for you ultimate, which confuses me about righty/lefty pitching matchups.  Doesn't a pitcher like Tudor have a better break towards the left (left as in the left of the TV) and if so wouldn't he match up better with lefties?  

[fknmclane]

So outside is the key for you ultimate, which confuses me about righty/lefty pitching matchups.  Doesn't a pitcher like Tudor have a better break towards the left (left as in the left of the TV) and if so wouldn't he match up better with lefties?  

For me, Tudor's ball breaks best over the left side of the plate, away from a lefty and onto a rightie's hands.  He can put the ball just out of reach of Reggie and Ruppert and jams the shit out of DeC and Downing and Hendrick.
Tudor is the fucking man.

[ultimate7]

I actually don't use this method much, smokedubad and JoeDirt could give better detail.

Yes, Tudor's best break is away from a Lefty batter (left on the TV), and personally I like to take pitchers with strong curve and pitch against same handed batters (Righty/Righty).

But Tudor has enough Right curve to take the pitch and move it just back across the corner.  The path of their pitches move just slightly outside and then just slightly across the corner (Or not) but from a hitter's standpoint it is tough to tell if they will bring the pitch back.  So you don't know strike/ball and often even if it is a strike, it is difficult to hit hard.