2k3 Edited

[MarquisEXB]

First I want to thank CLyon81 for his hard work with the rom. It must have taken forever to edit the team names, and input all the player data.

In the new rom I found that the pitching seemed to be too good at times (we play anything goes pitching) and not good enough at others. We (the person I play against at work) noticed that the pitching was a bit "weird." So I decided to take all the stats of the original & new rom & throw them into an excel sheet to see what was going on. For the original rom, I threw out the All star teams, so not to skew my numbers.

The first thing I looked at was the stamina numbers. In the original file, 8 starters (50%) had a 40 stamina. So therefore about 10 starters (50%) in the new file should have a 40 stamina. I took a look at IP total for the pitchers to find who should have what stamina. Since the old file was capped at 54, I capped the new one at 54 too. When I was finished I compared the average stamina values of all the starters on the original and new file. Both came to around 44, so I know I was in the right range.

To continue with the starters, I used ERA+ as a gauge to what their stats should be. (ERA+ can be found at www.baseball-reference.com) I found that the best pitchers that year were Pedro, Big Unit, Lowe, Zito, Maddux, Hudson, ...all the way to the end... Ortiz, Clemens (surprise!), and Radke (worse than average). I worked on FBspeed first. For some pitchers that had good stats (Maddux) they would have a low FB speed, but make up for it in other areas (he has the highest curve value). For other pitchers that had bad stats (Clemens) they might have a high FB speed, but a low curve (he has the lowest among starters).

I continued on for each stat. I made sure that the high values for each were close to the original. The same for the low values & average values. This way I felt that I wasn't too far astray from the original. I noticed the "weird" thing was that the sinker speed were very high & so was some of the curve values.

When I finished with the starters, I did the relivers. For relievers I used K/9 and WHIP to judge them, (which IMHO is a better judge of their talent than ERA.)

Primarily I edited the pitchers, but I did some other changes, notably:

Durazo to LHB
Reed for P2 MIN
Byung-Hyun Kim for P3 ARI
Koplove for P4 ARI

I also changed the team colors a bit to Atl, Bos, and SF (blended with the dirt).

A few hitters that are switch hitters were switched to lefties if the team needed one or not.

Anyway I hope that you enjoy & thanks again CLyon81!

M.K.

[Gantry]

MK:

Excellent work, and welcome!  I agree with your initial assessments on the pitchers, so I'll give your edited ROM a shot later today.  And if you do not mind, I might make a few adjustments myself based on a few issues I saw with players...

More to come, but a great first post to the forum...

[MarquisEXB]

Thanks. I'm also taking a look at the hitting stats too. What I find most interesting is looking at the original ROM vs the arcade rom (again throwing out the All Star team). Although the arcade rom has a lot of higher power guys (they maxx out at 975, highest original is 951), there is an interesting disparity when looking at the HR/power numbers. The original ROM gives higher power numbers when compared to HRs than the arcade one. What I mean is if you take the guys with 0-9 HRs in the original rom they average a 778 in power. The arcade's average is 710. The same holds for most HR numbers. So if you try to allocate power numbers based on how many HRs they hit, you would get higher numbers comparing to the original rom, than the arcade version.

I may try to work on the hitters today & see what I come up with.

Mike

[Chris Hill]

While you folks are editing (nice work everyone involved, by the way), check out our old friend Jesse Orosco on the Padres on ROM 3.  He's a righthanded overhand pitcher!  Everyone knows that Jesse is a sidearming lefty, so someone might want to switch him around...

Chris Hill

[clyon81]

I always think basing the fastball rating on an actual fastball rating, and not something as unrelated as ERA, it better. In fact, now your basing the ability of a pitchers Curve Ball on how good his stats are. Which in turn, it can be concluded, that the teams ability to show run support, and play defense effects the pitchers ability to now throw a fastball and a curveball. My fastball/curveball ratings are actually based on specific fastball/curveball ratings.  I should also mention that a big factor could be the two "unknown" fields for pitchers. We should really try to figure out what they mean. They could be anything to a rating for pitching to opposite hitters (ie lefty pitcher to righy batter), breaking pitch(ie curve in opposite direction), infield defense for pitcher/outfield defense for a pitcher, etc.


Thanks for letting me do all the work, then walking all over it. ANd before you say, "but I did say thanks!" Go throw dog shit at somebodys shirt, then tell them you like it after. Why dont you make your own rom, from scratch, and name it something else, since your not actually basing it on anything that ive done through WSB2k3. Put all the 2002 stats in, your own ratings, and do the hex and tile yourself. It's not easy to do all of that, then listen to some guy who has played the game probably 3 times max talk about "improvements".  If I was going to base ratings on stats, I would not have done it in the first place, because it never works out.  Try giving Griffey Jr. The power rating he deserves based on his stats(or lack there of) for the past season.

RBI Baseball 2k3 ripoff is what I would call it.  It would be pointless to try and emulate RBI because no matter how good it came out, it would not be compareable. I basically wanted to transfer 2k3 to RBI and see how it came out. Apparently good. Ill take the ability of people in 2003 to rate players, over 1986.

You can always go back to 1986 if your going to be so critical. I dont mind the editing, but do all the work yourself then, it's like your saying RBI Baseball 2k3 (the better version)

[Gantry]

I don't think Marquis wasn't being critical in any way, shape or form...  If you do not want people editing your ROM, that is fine but he isn't trying to step on your toes.  He went out of his way twice to thank you for the work you've done on the ROM....

That being said, and if it's OK with you, I'd like to make a few changes to the original 2k3 ROMs.  Nothing with player data, that isn't what I meant in my previous post.  I wanted to see if I could get a few of the ending newspaper names in sync with the team names.   Let me know if that is OK and I'll go to work...

[clyon81]

What about me going out of my way for a good portion of 3 days to give everybody a chance to play rbi baseball with all 30 teams, and 2003 players, etc.  It's not really fun reading how somebody thinks you did a bad job with something as critical as "pitching" in a baseball game. I cant' see why you would limit the number of good pitchers on my rbi2k3 rom 1 because the 1986 version had only so many. Remember, the original RBI Baseball did not have the top 8 teams at the time.  My 2k3 rom does, so you can see pitching being better. To give 2k3 a fair shake, compare all 3 roms. You will see top to bottom, and the percentages will probably come out similar. If 10% of pitchers are  exceptional on the original, then I would venture to get its close to the same when comparing all the pitchers on all 3 roms. The original gave you great teams, moderate, and bad. So do all 3 of my roms, but you cant compare them individually with the original, because they are seperated by talent level.

[clyon81]

Im all for the newspaper thing. Im just burned out myself. If you can do it, go ahead, but if you post them as the 2k3 roms, please refrain from changing anything else, other then the SF orange, maybe switch the colors.

[MarquisEXB]

Here is my latest update of the file. I've reworked the hitters stats. Again I found a lot of the power & speed ratings too high for my taste.

[clyon81]

Again, I have a link to this site off my website for 2k3, Id like the original 2k3 ones made by the original creator(me) to be the only ones titled 2k3 if you wouldnt mind. Your just taking all my work, and changing it for your network games against your buddy at work.

[Gantry]

That is a fair request, I'll see if I can change the name of Marquis attached zip files to this forum...

As for the ROMs, I would only be interesting in making changes you approve of.  All ROMs would be sent to you for approval for the 2k3 site.  I'm not about to change your ROMs on your site, even if I have access to it.  Nor would I post my edited ROMs on my site without your approval...

I'll see if I can make some headway on the newspapers...

[MarquisEXB]

Clyon,

In your original post you wrote: "If nothing else, The new roms will have laid the groundwork for anybody who wants to edit teams in the future, but doesnt know how to edit the graphics, etc." So why are you mad that I used your rom to edit the teams?

I don't think I insulted you in any way.

Mike

[Gantry]

I changed the names of the attached zip files to heed clyon's request to use a different name...

[clyon81]

Im not trying to copyright them or anything. You can change them at your will, for your amusement. But I just think about all the work I put into changing all the team names, getting the ratings, and then having somebody just take my work, tweak it, and then spread it around using the RBI 2k3 name, it just doesnt feel right.

[Gantry]

I now edited the .nes file as well as the zip name to take out the 2k3 name.  It's a fair request, and I'm sure Marquis will have no problems naming the files from now on.  A good resolution all around - if you are going to do additional work, don't use the original 2k3 name so people know that you're ROM isn't a work of the 2k3 author....

I'm more than certain that nobody here meant to intentionally insult anybody else.  So lets leave it at that and keep everything civil.  This community is too small to be fighting with each other...

[clyon81]

I did say that anybody could edit it. I also assumed to be edited in the future, like in a half year, or in 2004, or even for the new teams, past seasons. But I assumed you wouldnt use the same name. Geez, the name of this topic "2k3...Edited" at least to me implies, "the new roms that just came out, but corrected to be better"

[MarquisEXB]

Gantry,

According to the author, I still have to remove the "2K3" from all the screens within the game. As soon as I can find a hex editor that does translation tables that works in windows 2k, I will do so.

A final word to CLyon: I can't believe you're so mad that I took your work and tried to make it to my liking, when you took someone else's work (the rom) and made it to yours!

Mike

[clyon81]

First I want to thank CLyon81 for his hard work with the rom. It must have taken forever to edit the team names, and input all the player data.

So Basically, Doing all the tough work...

In the new rom I found that the pitching seemed to be too good at times (we play anything goes pitching) and not good enough at others.

That sounds like....wait, real baseball?!?   What do you want, everybody to play exactly the same? You could probably find an old Soviet Union Baseball League to make a rom if you want that.

We (the person I play against at work) noticed that the pitching was a bit "weird."

Have you played the computer at all? How about playing that same person with the original rom. Some how I dont think you are comparing them correctly, or under the same circumstances.

So I decided to take all the stats of the original & new rom & throw them into an excel sheet to see what was going on.

If your going to compare, compare ALL 3 2k3 roms with the original. The original had a few great, moderate, and poor teams to round out the rom. In order to round out the new rom, you would need to add all the teams together, then compare your "percentages"

The first thing I looked at was the stamina numbers. In the original file, 8 starters (50%) had a 40 stamina. So therefore about 10 starters (50%) in the new file should have a 40 stamina.

Again, the new "rom" as you call it I refer to as ROM 1. Since ROM 1 has all the best teams for 2003, you can throw that assumption out the window.

To continue with the starters, I used ERA+ as a gauge to what their stats should be.

So you got curve/sinker/normal/and fastball all from the pitchers era? Id say a combination of the things that have made ERAs in general MUCH HIGHER today then in 86, you cant really come to a fair assesement. Example, nobody on the original rom could get an ERA over I think it's 3.55, some pitchers have over 5 or 6 for ERA, how does that translate to RBI?

I worked on FBspeed first. For some pitchers that had good stats (Maddux) they would have a low FB speed, but make up for it in other areas.

Does this mean that guys like Pedro Martinez and Unit probably did not get a decent fastball rating because of good stats?

continued on for each stat. I made sure that the high values for each were close to the original. The same for the low values & average values.

If you want to compare the 2k3 "rom" with the original, make one with a couple from each, so its more balanced. The amount of players that have this or that argument does not stand.

This way I felt that I wasn't too far astray from the original. I noticed the "weird" thing was that the sinker speed were very high & so was some of the curve values.

How exactly do you derive a sinker speed from ERA???

When I finished with the starters, I did the relivers. For relievers I used K/9 and WHIP to judge them, (which IMHO is a better judge of their talent than ERA.)

So now relievers are based on a totally seperate rating system then the starters, as if they play an entirely different position?

Primarily I edited the pitchers, but I did some other changes, notably:

Durazo to LHB
Reed for P2 MIN
Byung-Hyun Kim for P3 ARI
Koplove for P4 ARI

I also changed the team colors a bit to Atl, Bos, and SF (blended with the dirt).

Ill agree on the SF colors.  And some of the lineups might not be totally 100% accurate, but it would be lazy and unfair of me to change only certin ones based upon teams i knew, to teams I didnt. I use a scale, and stick to it.

A few hitters that are switch hitters were switched to lefties if the team needed one or not.

Again, I dont change things to better teams or "overall equality" I give them what they are, and let that stand, like it does in the real world. For switch hitters, I based it on the assumtion that a good portion of hitters in baseball tend to hit from the same side of the plate as the arm they throw with. It's not always accurate, but again, not vearing from my scale or system in an effort to half assidly(is this a word? hehe) adjust it to my general assumed understanding from watching sportscenter.

Anyway I hope that you enjoy & thanks again CLyon81!

Thanks for what? Providing you a way to edit only the things you want, and leave the boring work to somebody that actually will spend the time to enter things. What was your methiod for speed? Contact? If your going to change it, do me a favor and name your own rom.  Id like to think that with the work I put in, you could respect my rom, and edit the rom text and title to reflect that is in fact not really the 2k3 rom, but something that was, half edited so you could beat your buddy in a network game.

Thank YOU

[clyon81]

According to the author, I still have to remove the "2K3" from all the screens within the game. As soon as I can find a hex editor that does translation tables that works in windows 2k, I will do so.

I used nesticle to find the hex value, then hexpose to change it.

A final word to CLyon: I can't believe you're so mad that I took your work and tried to make it to my liking, when you took someone else's work (the rom) and made it to yours!

The only similarity between my game and the original, is that it is meant to reflect Major League Baseball. I added teams that were not there, changed ALL the players, and did ALL the work to complete it. I didnt make it to my liking, because that would mean that I used the same lineups, players, and teams from 86, and just made one of the players, say N.Ryan's fastball a little slower because it was too hard for me to hit.


Just take all the 2k3 out of your stuff, and I dont really care what you do, even if all you did was change a few things, and do hardly any work.

Ive had people say they are changing teams from rom to rom, and even making some teams better, but they are not posting those roms on here and calling them "RBI2k3 Edited to be better"

[vgp100]

All right--knock it off. This is not an agry forum! Nobody here wants to hear pissed off people!