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General => RBI Baseball => Topic started by: Gantry on 01/09/06, 12:10:07 PM

Title: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Gantry on 01/09/06, 12:10:07 PM
Good article by Jason Stark (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2283084) about why he's voting for Bertus this year...
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: RedBarron on 01/09/06, 12:38:40 PM
It's a crime that he's not already in.


I have my doubts whether they'll vote anyone in this year.

An all RBI class would be cool:

Rice, Blyleven, Dawson, Trammell, Will Clark, Dale Murphy


Speaking of Will Clark, I used to think he was an easy "no" but looking at his stats, he was a lot better than I recalled.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Attezz on 01/09/06, 05:54:49 PM
It's a crime that Jayson Stark gets a vote.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Gantry on 01/09/06, 06:06:12 PM
Quote from: Ryno on 01/09/06, 12:38:40 PM
An all RBI class would be cool:

Rice, Blyleven, Dawson, Trammell, Will Clark, Dale Murphy, Steve Lake
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: RedBarron on 01/09/06, 08:26:20 PM
Quote from: Attezz on 01/09/06, 05:54:49 PM
It's a crime that Jayson Stark gets a vote.


Why is that?
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Attezz on 01/09/06, 10:16:46 PM
Quote from: Ryno on 01/09/06, 08:26:20 PM
Quote from: Attezz on 01/09/06, 05:54:49 PM
It's a crime that Jayson Stark gets a vote.


Why is that?

Because he's a ridiculously bad writer, maybe he was a good beat writer for ten years, but nowadays, his columns are utter shit. He's the king of "I spoke to a person in the <any team's> organization, and he said" but eventually it turns out that he wasn't even close to a lead and the person he spoke to was probably a bat boy he followed around at the Boys and Girls club until he finally got an anonymous quote.

Fuck him. Writing for ESPN.com should eliminate you from all HOF qualifications.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Stock on 01/10/06, 08:06:09 AM
Bert is one of the top 50 pitchers of all time.
Since there are way more than 50 pitchers in the hall, logic would say he gets in.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: ultimate7 on 01/10/06, 08:20:56 AM
Stark's weekly(?) unusual occurences column is great.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: BDawk on 01/10/06, 08:36:20 AM
Quote from: Attezz on 01/09/06, 10:16:46 PM
Quote from: Ryno on 01/09/06, 08:26:20 PM
Quote from: Attezz on 01/09/06, 05:54:49 PM
It's a crime that Jayson Stark gets a vote.


Why is that?

Because he's a ridiculously bad writer, maybe he was a good beat writer for ten years, but nowadays, his columns are utter shit. He's the king of "I spoke to a person in the <any team's> organization, and he said" but eventually it turns out that he wasn't even close to a lead and the person he spoke to was probably a bat boy he followed around at the Boys and Girls club until he finally got an anonymous quote.

Fuck him. Writing for ESPN.com should eliminate you from all HOF qualifications.

I can't believe you singled him out as a bad writer. ESPN has almost all bad writers---save for HST
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Gantry on 01/10/06, 01:54:04 PM
File under Dah Nah, I personally though Bertus was the most deserving of the bunch.  Had a decent showing, but he ain't going to get in... 
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Metal King on 01/19/06, 09:59:39 PM
Bert Blyleven's case for the HOF is even more incredible than those other guys (Gossage, Rice, Dawson, etc).  It's ridiculous for a guy with the 5th most K's ever, and 287 wins to be left out of it.  So what if he only won 20 games once.  He has alot more wins than Don Drysdale has, and he's in.

Same thing for Tommy John.  He wasn't a K specialist, but racked up 288 wins (one more than BertBly).  Jim Kaat too.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: poolstroke72 on 01/20/06, 06:33:53 AM
Quote from: Ryno on 01/09/06, 12:38:40 PM
It's a crime that he's not already in.


I have my doubts whether they'll vote anyone in this year.

An all RBI class would be cool:

Rice, Blyleven, Dawson, Trammell, Will Clark, Dale Murphy


Speaking of Will Clark, I used to think he was an easy "no" but looking at his stats, he was a lot better than I recalled.

WTF No love for Mattingly?
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: RedBarron on 01/20/06, 07:23:40 AM
mattingly was the best player in the bigs for 4 or 5 years, but his back injury probably smashed any chance he had at making the hall.

I don't think Will Clark received enough votes to make next year's ballot.

Comparing the two, Clark sustained a better career for a longer period of time.  Hell, he hit .345 in his last season. . . . . he didn't fade out like some guys (like dale murphy) did.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Stock on 01/20/06, 09:10:01 AM
WClark had a better career than Mattingly.
Neither have a chance for making the Hall.

I still remember watching the game where the Thrill smashed 4 homers against the cubs in the playoffs.  SWEET!
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: ultimate7 on 01/20/06, 09:13:33 AM
Quote from: Stock on 01/20/06, 09:10:01 AM

I still remember watching the game where the Thrill smashed 4 homers against the cubs in the playoffs.  SWEET!

Your memories are deceiving you
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Stock on 01/20/06, 09:21:50 AM
Quote from: ultimate7 on 01/20/06, 09:13:33 AM
Quote from: Stock on 01/20/06, 09:10:01 AM

I still remember watching the game where the Thrill smashed 4 homers against the cubs in the playoffs.  SWEET!

Your memories are deceiving you

Right, I think it was only 2 (including a Grand Slam).  4 for the series, with an average over .600?
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Attezz on 01/20/06, 09:22:48 AM
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B10040CHN1989.htm
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: JoeDirt on 01/20/06, 10:09:04 AM
Quote from: Ryno on 01/20/06, 07:23:40 AM

Comparing the two, Clark sustained a better career for a longer period of time.  Hell, he hit .345 in his last season. . . . .

Yeah, in 51 games.  Lenny Dysktra hit .420 for the first half of 1990 (or so).
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Stock on 01/20/06, 10:24:48 AM
Quote from: JoeDirt on 01/20/06, 10:09:04 AM
Quote from: Ryno on 01/20/06, 07:23:40 AM

Comparing the two, Clark sustained a better career for a longer period of time.  Hell, he hit .345 in his last season. . . . .

Yeah, in 51 games.  Lenny Dysktra hit .420 for the first half of 1990 (or so).

You're right.  He sucked his last season.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: JoeDirt on 01/20/06, 10:36:40 AM
I'm just saying, let's be real about it when we say that he hit .345 in his last season.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: RedBarron on 01/20/06, 10:55:11 AM
I'm just saying that lots of players get on the downswing of their careers and completely suck ass.

Will Clark went out very very well.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: JoeDirt on 01/20/06, 10:56:39 AM
Well, I agree with you that .345 is a very good ba, I disagree with you that being able to play in but 51 of 162 games is a "very very well" way to go out.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Attezz on 01/20/06, 10:58:30 AM
Will Clark played in 130 games his final year and hit .319.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Dryden on 01/20/06, 11:59:03 AM
Will Clark has an extremely credible claim for the hall, especially when you faxtor in that most of his best years were spent in an extreme pitcher's park in an offense-depressed era.

Blyleven should unquestionably be in the hall, but to say that he is one of the best 50 pitchers ever is almost certainly untrue.  It's pretty close, anyway.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: JoeDirt on 01/20/06, 01:44:58 PM
Quote from: Attezz on 01/20/06, 10:58:30 AM
Will Clark played in 130 games his final year and hit .319.

I retract my statement.  I was looking at his stats with StL only that last yr, apparently.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Metal King on 01/20/06, 02:15:45 PM
Yeah Will Clark never really had a bad season.  I mean NEVER.  He hit .300+ ten total times, and went out on top.  He could've still played, must not have wanted to.

Don Mattingly lost his power in '90 severely, and never hit more than 17 homers in a season from 1990-1995, but he had 40 doubles and hit over .300 one year in that span,  it's just that his 80's power and rbi's were down.  He went from great to merely a solid player.  And he retired the year before the Yanks won the World Series.

Other guys who went out on top:

Paul O'Neill went 20-20 in his final season.

George Brett led his team in homers his final year (but he's already in).  Well it was either hr or rbi he led in.

Chili Davis had a good final year (19 homers I think)

Mark McGwire hit 29 hr in 2001 but batted .187 if you wanna call that going out on top, heh heh.

Robin Yount is already in, but had a decent 1993 like Brett, but he had just turned 40 or close to it when he retired that year.

Paul Molitor had a great final 1998 season.  He could have played a few more years and threatened Pete Rose's hit record, but doubtful.

He'll never be a HOFer, but Dave Kingman hit 35 homers in his final season in 1986, and still holds the record for most hr in a final season.  If Barry Bonds would have retired after 2004, he'd have the record with 45.

Kirby Puckett got elected in 2001,  he had one of the best careers of anyone when he had to retire after 1995.  Never had a bad year, may have still been playing around 2001, would've had 3000 hits easy,  600-650 doubles,  close to 2,000 runs AND rbi's, 300 homers, a high avg.  I think it was Dennis Martinez who hit him in the face with a pitch and forced him to quit.  I remember watching that.  Damn him!
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Dryden on 01/20/06, 02:21:01 PM
Of course, for all-time "going out on top", there's that Ted Williams guy you might have heard of...

At the age of 41, Ted:  hit .316, with 29 HRs, with an insane (for anyone but him) OPS of 1.096.  Had he had enough at bats to qualify, he would have led the league, ahead of some guy named Mantle.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: BeefMaster on 01/20/06, 03:02:05 PM
QuoteKirby Puckett got elected in 2001,  he had one of the best careers of anyone when he had to retire after 1995.  Never had a bad year, may have still been playing around 2001, would've had 3000 hits easy,  600-650 doubles,  close to 2,000 runs AND rbi's, 300 homers, a high avg.  I think it was Dennis Martinez who hit him in the face with a pitch and forced him to quit.  I remember watching that.  Damn him!

Actually, while the beaning was Puckett's last at-bat, it wasn't what forced him to quit.  He developed glaucoma during the offseason, which was the reason he retired.  I don't think the two were directly related.
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Stock on 01/20/06, 03:22:17 PM
True, but negative affects of glaucoma can be intensified by severe drama to the eye.  This is the same thing that happened to that linemen awhile back--the guy who got fined when he shoved a ref after being hit in the eye with a beanbag.

I believe he sued the NFL.  Not sure whatever came of it.
Personally, I think that ref should have been suspended or fined.  fkndumbass
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Dryden on 01/20/06, 03:43:35 PM
Courtney Brown...
Title: Re: Blyleven for the HOF
Post by: Gantry on 01/20/06, 06:07:28 PM
Quote from: Dryden on 01/20/06, 03:43:35 PM
Courtney Orlando Brown...