I'm working on doing an update to the arcade RBI to add in some deserving players and maybe adjust competitive balance a bit (i.e. give Ho a slightly better chance of not completely sucking.) I'm at the point where I need some opinions on how the new players and adjusted ratings affect the game, and if any changes are necessary. Here's a short list of what I've done so far:
Oakland: none
Houston: added Bagwell, Wagner and Biggio
Atlanta: changed uni colors, added Chipper Jones and Tom Glavine
St. Louis: adjusted uni color, added El Hombre, Jimmy Ballgame and Enos Slaughter, boosted Gibson's stamina a bit
Chicago Cubs: Adjusted uni colors
Los Angeles: Added Piazza
San Fran: Added Barry Bonds and Christy Mathewson, changed uni color to off-white
Cincy: changed uni colors, moved Frank Robinson to starting lineup
Boston: Added Pedro, fine-tuned Clemens's stamina
New York: Added Jeter and Rivera, moved Mattingly to starting lineup
Pitcher batting stats represent career stats. Most added players have stats based on 162-game average rather than a specific season.
Any suggestions on players who should be replaced or who need stats adjusted would be greatly appreciated.
good idea for an update.
i have a question about piazza on the dodgers though. i'm not sure how the original arcade rosters were compiled, but i think it's "all-time teams" for those clubs.
usually when all-time teams are put together players are inculded who played the most games or spent the most years with a particular team. i think piazza played longer in both respects with the new york mets, so you may want to rethink having him on la. but it's your rom, and especially if you're from the la area, i can understand you keeping him in la.
i like a lot of your other changes, but honestly, i'm not as familiar with the arcade version as i am with the nes version.
Who did you take off of each team?
Why Glavine but not Maddux for the Braves?
I really hope you didn't take Spahn, Burdette or Niekro off the Braves, that would be a travesty.
Until I read your post, I never realized Big Six wasn't on the Arcade version, also a travesty
Quote from: TBG on 08/13/06, 05:38:01 PM
good idea for an update.
i have a question about piazza on the dodgers though. i'm not sure how the original arcade rosters were compiled, but i think it's "all-time teams" for those clubs.
usually when all-time teams are put together players are inculded who played the most games or spent the most years with a particular team. i think piazza played longer in both respects with the new york mets, so you may want to rethink having him on la. but it's your rom, and especially if you're from the la area, i can understand you keeping him in la.
i like a lot of your other changes, but honestly, i'm not as familiar with the arcade version as i am with the nes version.
You know, I debated that, since I tried to avoid similar situations with the Yankees and a couple of other teams, but what finally settled it in his favor is his appearance at the top of most of the Dodgers team hitting lists (4th in BA, 8th in OBP, 2nd in SLG, 3rd in OPS). The other option would be Eric Karros, since the Dodgers desperately need some power off the bench.
Glavine replaced Garber in the Braves bullpen. I debated Maddux, but Glavine's credentials as a Brave were stronger IMO. I've debated adding Maddux to the Cubs rotation in place of Sutcliffe.
You should add Edd Roush to the Reds in place of Griffey Sr.
You should have the Tigers replace the Astros.
Here's the list of replaced players (latest changes in BOLD):
Houston
---------------
Bagwell for Glenn Davis
Biggio for Terry Puhl
Wagner for JR Richard
Oakland
---------------
none
Atlanta
--------------
Jones for Del Crandall
Glavine for Gene Garber
St. Louis
--------------
Pujols for Jack Clark
Edmonds for Curt Flood (I'm going back and forth on this one.)
Slaughter for Willie McGee (Cards fans, your thoughts? I think Country gets the nod over #51 myself.)
Chicago
--------------
Maddux for Rick Sutcliffe
Cap Anson replaces PHansn?
Los Angeles
---------------
Piazza for Steve Sax
San Fran
---------------
Barry Bonds for Bobby Bonds
Christy Mathewson for Mike McCormick
Cincinnati
----------------
Edd Roush for Ken Griffey Sr.
Barry Larkin for Dave Concepcion
Boston
---------------
Pedro Martinez for Dick Radatz
Joe Cronin into lineup for Rick Burleson
Harry Hooper for Rick Burleson
New York
---------------
Jeter for Lazzeri
Mattingly replaces Rizzuto in the lineup
Rivera replaces Righetti
I think Jeter should replace Winfield.
I consider Winfield more a Gopher than a Yankee.
Roush has an excellent case to beat out Griffey Sr., so that change will be made for sure.
I'd prefer to replace Winfield with another outfielder if possible, which means his replacement would be Bernie Williams, which would have the effect of giving the Yankee lineup the top 8 and 9 of the team's top 10 in HR. Thoughts?
The reds need lots of changes...
Sit Griffey and put Frank robinson in as the starter in the #2 spot...also I would add Barry Larkin to the mix and take out Concepcion.
Quote from: GoReds on 08/13/06, 06:25:42 PM
The reds need lots of changes...
Sit Griffey and put Frank robinson in as the starter in the #2 spot...also I would add Barry Larkin to the mix and take out Concepcion.
I completely forgot about Larkin. D'oh.
I put Robinson in the #3 hole to replace Pinson, and thanks to the earlier suggestion I'm adding Edd Roush in Griffey's spot.
Harry Hooper should replace Joe Cronin on the bench, Joe Cronin should replace Rick Burleson (seriously, what the fuck were they thinking?) in the starting lineup.
This is my second Harry Hooper reference of the day.
OK, if anyone has any other specific substitutions, they'll have to wait until after this revision.
I'm attaching the updated ROM to this post; play with it for a while, see if anyone seems woefully over- or under-powered and let me know what needs fixing.
Quote from: quietude on 08/13/06, 05:17:56 PM
Houston: added Bagwell, Wagner and Biggio
Nice. If you're trying to get more power to their line up, what about Berkman?
Quote from: quietude on 08/13/06, 05:17:56 PM
Atlanta: changed uni colors, added Chipper Jones and Tom Glavine
I'm against the uni color change, for the record. Also, I can't believe that Glavine has more credentials than Maddux (although I haven't seen their Braves-only stats).
Quote from: quietude on 08/13/06, 05:17:56 PM
St. Louis: adjusted uni color, added El Hombre, Jimmy Ballgame and Enos Slaughter, boosted Gibson's stamina a bit
Chicago Cubs: Adjusted uni colors
Still against the uni changes...
Quote from: quietude on 08/13/06, 05:17:56 PM
New York: Added Jeter and Rivera, moved Mattingly to starting lineup
If that's Ruben Rivera, then make sure Jeter knows to bring an extra glove.
Quote from: quietude on 08/13/06, 05:17:56 PM
Pitcher batting stats represent career stats. Most added players have stats based on 162-game average rather than a specific season.
Excellent idea.
Joe, how do you feel about the uni changes?
I'm not for 'em.
Some good changes...although JR Richard really needs to stay in the game. He was lights out. Not his fault he had a stroke.
This seemed like a good idea, then it all went to hell. Eat it, Griffey haters.
removing terry puhl = bad news
The St. Louis uni change is just to slightly darken the red to be closer to Cardinal red (seriously, it's disturbingly close on my TV. Looks a little dark on a monitor, though.) The Chicago change was because the powder-blue Cubs unis were ugly. The Reds changes were a function of the Red Sox stealing their preferred uniform colors.
Here's my rationale for Glavine over Maddux: Glavine had 48 more wins as a Brave and appeared in 140 more games. Plus, I added circa-1992 Cy Young winning Maddux to the Cubs in favor of Rick Sutcliffe.
The Rivera is, obviously, The Hammer of God and not Ruben "Sticky Fingers" Rivera.
The argument for Wagner over Richard was that A) the Astros desperately needed a lefty in the pen, B) Wagner was equally lights-out as an Astro closer, and C) He's all over the top of the Astros' leaderboards for ERA, saves, WHIP, H/9, K/9 and games. As for Berkman, he's getting there, but he's still pretty young. Maybe in a couple of years.
Quote from: quietude on 08/14/06, 12:57:54 PM
The argument for Wagner over Richard was that A) the Astros desperately needed a lefty in the pen, B) Wagner was equally lights-out as an Astro closer, and C) He's all over the top of the Astros' leaderboards for ERA, saves, WHIP, H/9, K/9 and games. As for Berkman, he's getting there, but he's still pretty young. Maybe in a couple of years.
Racist.
So, how does it play? Should I be tweaking anyone's stats, or are they pretty close to actual performance?
J.R. Richard is much worse in this version.
Quote from: Shooty Babitt on 08/14/06, 01:31:48 PM
J.R. Richard is much worse in this version.
Did Billy Wagner kill your parents or something?
Cory Lidle could kick Billy Wagner's ass, and I hope he does.
Quote from: quietude on 08/14/06, 01:33:41 PM
Quote from: Shooty Babitt on 08/14/06, 01:31:48 PM
J.R. Richard is much worse in this version.
Did Billy Wagner kill your parents or something?
Nothing against Wagner, but J.R. was awesome. Next to Ryan, he'd be my #2 starter. He had 4 seasons in a row leadign the team in ERA (including a couple of 300 K years) and then was on his was to a Cy Young year (with a sub 2.00 ERA) when God remembered he hated blacks and gave him a stroke.
Quote from: Shooty Babitt on 08/14/06, 02:37:23 PM
Quote from: quietude on 08/14/06, 01:33:41 PM
Quote from: Shooty Babitt on 08/14/06, 01:31:48 PM
J.R. Richard is much worse in this version.
Did Billy Wagner kill your parents or something?
Nothing against Wagner, but J.R. was awesome. Next to Ryan, he'd be my #2 starter. He had 4 seasons in a row leadign the team in ERA (including a couple of 300 K years) and then was on his was to a Cy Young year (with a sub 2.00 ERA) when God remembered he hated blacks and gave him a stroke.
He also had 4 seasons leading the team in walks (1975-1978.) If I make any more changes to the Houston pitching staff, it'll be to swap Mike Scott for Larry Dierker, if I can find some info on what style of pitcher he was. Looking at his K totals, I'm gonna say he wasn't a power-strikeout guy, but I don't know if he had a really wicked curve or if he just threw a lot of groundballs and made guys pound them into the infield.
I can't believe you'd remove Scott. Scott and J.R. Richard are similar (statwise) pitchers.
If walks are your criteria for making the team, Nolan Ryan shouldn't even be allowed to play an Arcade RBI game.
And Shooty only likes Richard because his name sounds so similar to J.P. Ricciardi.
Fucking Canucks.
Don't put Cap Anson on the game. He was a fucking douche.
Quote from: Ryno on 08/14/06, 04:39:55 PM
Don't put Cap Anson on the game. He was a fucking douche.
Recommendation, then, O Ye of the Ryne Sandberg picture?
Mark Grace was always a cub favorite and might make a decent guy off the bench.
Bill Madlock put up some good years as a Cub, as did Bill Buckner.
Seriously, Anson was a racist sonofabitch. .. . . .helluva player (for his time), though.
Sammy Sosa is probably the best pick. He had it rough his last couple of years, but he was still bad ass.
Quote from: Ryno on 08/14/06, 05:12:17 PM
Mark Grace was always a cub favorite and might make a decent guy off the bench.
Bill Madlock put up some good years as a Cub, as did Bill Buckner.
Seriously, Anson was a racist sonofabitch. .. . . .helluva player (for his time), though.
Sammy Sosa is probably the best pick. He had it rough his last couple of years, but he was still bad ass.
Sosa and Grace are on the bench, as is Derrek Lee (which I don't remember doing, strangely.) Anson's personal issues aside, he's the best player not already on the team. If I did a Tigers team, Cobb would be on it, and I don't think anyone would argue he wasn't a tremendous son-of-a-bitch.
Wow, please don't bash Cobb unless you know what you're talking about.
To say Anson was a racist douche isn't exactly doing it justice, Anson is almost 95% RESPONSIBLE for segregation in the Majors, remember, when Anson began there for a handful of Afro-Americans in the majors, until Anson become a star and rallied the troops and eliminated that, for half a century.
As for Cobb, not only is he (in my opinion) the greatest htiter of all time (and certainly top four no matter who you talk to), but he gets a bad rep because of his competitiveness. Tris Speaker was FAR more racist than Cobb, the one thing that Cobb and Speaker have in common is that in their later years they were HUGE proponents of integrating the big leagues, with Speaker teaching Doby (remember him??) many tricks, and Cobb helping out many, many, MANY African American players who were just beginning.
Smoky Joe Wood was also a racist and HATED Catholics, read up on the early Red Sox teams (during Wood and Speaker's time) and you'll realize how stupid that Cobb statement was.
King Kelly should be on the Boston team, afterall, he is solely responsible for having to have your manager speak to the ump about subbing you in.
"Kelly substituting!!"
And quietdude, you have no idea how much more of a prick I wanted to be during this post.
Quote from: Attezzobal on 08/14/06, 05:59:42 PM
Wow, please don't bash Cobb unless you know what you're talking about.
To say Anson was a racist douche isn't exactly doing it justice, Anson is almost 95% RESPONSIBLE for segregation in the Majors, remember, when Anson began there for a handful of Afro-Americans in the majors, until Anson become a star and rallied the troops and eliminated that, for half a century.
As for Cobb, not only is he (in my opinion) the greatest htiter of all time (and certainly top four no matter who you talk to), but he gets a bad rep because of his competitiveness. Tris Speaker was FAR more racist than Cobb, the one thing that Cobb and Speaker have in common is that in their later years they were HUGE proponents of integrating the big leagues, with Speaker teaching Doby (remember him??) many tricks, and Cobb helping out many, many, MANY African American players who were just beginning.
Smoky Joe Wood was also a racist and HATED Catholics, read up on the early Red Sox teams (during Wood and Speaker's time) and you'll realize how stupid that Cobb statement was.
King Kelly should be on the Boston team, afterall, he is solely responsible for having to have your manager speak to the ump about subbing you in.
"Kelly substituting!!"
And quietdude, you have no idea how much more of a prick I wanted to be during this post.
Dude, I didn't say Cobb was a racist, just a son-of-a-bitch. His temper didn't win him many friends on or off the field.
Did you keep Dave Kingman?
Quote from: Ryno on 08/14/06, 06:03:31 PM
Did you keep Dave Kingman?
Kingman bopped around way too much. He was a Cub for 3 years, a Giant for 4, an A for 3, and he was a Met for two different stretches, including in 1977, when he was a Met, Padre, Angel and Yankee.
Do you have any idea of how close Cobb and Ted Williams were? How close Cobb and almost all the wealth in GA and MI were?
On the field he played hard, he didn't spike guys nearly as much as people claim, and as he was nearing his death he made amends with some folks but the majority of people he knew he irritated to no end and disfriended (word?) them.
There's a reason why Cobb was insanely wealthy, and it wasn't because people were handing him shares of Coca-a-cola and Ford so that he'd stay away from them.
He also took hats that people would throw on the field and give them to his mules.
And if you're putting Derrek Lee on there, I don't think it matters how long Dave Kingman played with the Cubs.
May as well put Piazza on the Marlins.
Isn't Derrek Lee fluent in Japanese?
DLee is there because he won the triple crown with the Cubs.
I'd keep Kingman over Anson.
Quote from: Attezzobal on 08/14/06, 06:12:04 PM
Do you have any idea of how close Cobb and Ted Williams were? How close Cobb and almost all the wealth in GA and MI were?
On the field he played hard, he didn't spike guys nearly as much as people claim, and as he was nearing his death he made amends with some folks but the majority of people he knew he irritated to no end and disfriended (word?) them.
There's a reason why Cobb was insanely wealthy, and it wasn't because people were handing him shares of Coca-a-cola and Ford so that he'd stay away from them.
He also took hats that people would throw on the field and give them to his mules.
And if you're putting Derrek Lee on there, I don't think it matters how long Dave Kingman played with the Cubs.
May as well put Piazza on the Marlins.
Isn't Derrek Lee fluent in Japanese?
I don't recall putting Derrek Lee in there. It's possible I loaded a ROM besides the default arcade one when I was getting started, because I was still figuring out how the editor worked. I'm probably going to remove him in my next revision.
And seriously, I wasn't trying to start a fight over Ty Cobb. I was just pointing out the popular opinion about him. If it's unjustified, that's something for the historians to try and correct.
Quote from: Ryno on 08/14/06, 06:16:22 PM
DLee is there because he won the triple crown with the Cubs.
No he didn't. There hasn't been a Triple Crown in the NL since Joe Medwick in '37.
I'm telling you he won it. He'll probably win it again this year, too. . . . .death, taxes, and DLee winning the triple crown.
btw, it's a dee-nee inside joke about dlee and the triple crown. I'd find the original thread, but i'm a lazy bastard.
Quote from: quietude on 08/14/06, 06:18:54 PM
Quote from: Ryno on 08/14/06, 06:16:22 PM
DLee is there because he won the triple crown with the Cubs.
No he didn't. There hasn't been a Triple Crown in the NL since Joe Medwick in '37.
Carl Yastrzemski, Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams and Frank Robinson send their regards.
Quote from: Attezzobal on 08/14/06, 06:53:49 PM
Quote from: quietude on 08/14/06, 06:18:54 PM
Quote from: Ryno on 08/14/06, 06:16:22 PM
DLee is there because he won the triple crown with the Cubs.
No he didn't. There hasn't been a Triple Crown in the NL since Joe Medwick in '37.
Carl Yastrzemski, Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams and Frank Robinson send their regards.
From the AL. Joe Medwick had the last NL Triple Crown.
I can't read.
I don't like this whole project, why not just redo the teams from scratch? I like the Arcade version the way it is and I like the fact that all the teams aren't even.
Just redo determining your own criteria (all time teams 1920-200?) or something
OK, new revision time (still need gameplay opinions in addition to the debates over who's deserving!)
Additions/changes:
St. Louis:
Power adjusted for Pujols
Speed adjusted for Brock, Coleman
Chicago:
"DLee" (he didn't have Derrek Lee's stats, so I don't know who he was) replaced with Phil Cavarretta
Power adjusted for Banks, Sosa
Speed adjusted for Sosa, S.Hack, Sandberg
Los Angeles:
Manny Mota replaced with Zack Wheat
San Fran:
Power adjusted for Bonds
Boston:
Uni changed from dark gray back to default light gray
Chicago's stats were way off. Sandberg was faster than Lou Brock, for crying out loud.
ultimate7, I'm using the original RBI Arcade as a base because there are several teams that don't need much work. Oakland, for example, hasn't changed much at all since the original, and St. Louis, New York and Chicago only needed a couple of new players. My goal was just to fix some of the glaring omissions and add in the newer players more than it was to get a better balance.
Quote from: quietude on 08/14/06, 08:22:30 PM
Los Angeles:
Manny Mota replaced with Zack Wheat
Are you kidding?
Quote from: Attezzobal on 08/14/06, 08:26:32 PM
Quote from: quietude on 08/14/06, 08:22:30 PM
Los Angeles:
Manny Mota replaced with Zack Wheat
Are you kidding?
Manny Mota: great pinch hitter, yes, but couldn't hit a home run from second base, much less the plate, and didn't play regularly as a Dodger.
Zack Wheat: franchise leader in hits, singsles, doubles and triples, as well as 3rd in RBI and 5th in BA.
I'm comfortable with that substitution.
Wow, see, I can't read.
At first I had that being Mota replacing Wheat.
I'm totally now in your fan club (outside of the Cobb stuff).
I wondered how someone might have an objection to that move, since Mota was his generation's Lenny Harris and Zack Wheat is all over the Dodger record book.
Sandberg is at least 19 times faster than brock.
Quote from: Ryno on 08/14/06, 11:33:05 PM
Sandberg is at least 19 times faster than brock.
Maybe in Bizarro Fantasyland where the Cubs didn't trade Brock for Ernie Broglio and a bucket of balls, but in the real world, Brock and his 938 SB blow Sandberg and his 344 SB out of the water. Heck, Brock stole a third of Sandberg's career total in one SEASON (at age 35, no less!)
I'm gonna have to tone Brock's speed down just a bit, though, because he went first-to-third on a hit and run grounder to second in a game I played earlier. He'd be the perfect Pettis hitter, because he's so fast that he can beat out almost anything.
Replace Hou with KC.
The brock for brogglio trade wasn't nearly as bad as people like to think it was. Brock was good, but not Hall of Fame good with the Cubs. Brogglio was coming off some very good years and the Cubs needed pitching.
The trade was made before the technological advances in sports medicine, or else Brogglio's arm injuries might have been discovered before the trade went down.
Quote from: Bonny on 08/15/06, 07:40:11 AM
Replace Hou with KC.
I'm actually thinking about doing a Vol. II with the following teams:
Philadelphia
New York (NL)
Pittsburgh
Cleveland
Minnesota
Detroit
Chicago (AL)
Kansas City
California
Milwaukee
It'll wait until after I get this one fine-tuned. Anyone found anybody that's way off?
http://dee-nee.com/rbi/roms/
Quote
Ultimate7's RBI Arcade II - Dee-Nee Forum veteran Ultimate7 created a ROM with in the spirit of RBI Arcade, yet used 10 new teams - Pirates, Royals, Phillies, Tigers, WhiteSox, Indians, Orioles, Brewers, Expos, and Twins. Click here for full rosters and abilities..
Quote from: ultimate7 on 08/15/06, 02:24:56 PM
http://dee-nee.com/rbi/roms/
Quote
Ultimate7's RBI Arcade II - Dee-Nee Forum veteran Ultimate7 created a ROM with in the spirit of RBI Arcade, yet used 10 new teams - Pirates, Royals, Phillies, Tigers, WhiteSox, Indians, Orioles, Brewers, Expos, and Twins. Click here for full rosters and abilities..
Huh. Awesome. Didn't see that. Thanks for saving me the work of doing it myself!
There's a lot of comments I could put here, but you're obviously not shooting for complete lineups for any of these teams, or even complete starting lineups.
Some obvious players who are missing/better than included players:
Yankees: Bill Dickey, Joe Gordon, Charlie Keller, Red Ruffing, and a lot of the current lineup. Lots of people are better than Munson and Rizzuto.
Boston: How Jimmie Foxx isn't on the A's, I'll never know. Especially since he never hit 58 HRs for the Sox. ManRam should be here. George Scott, too. Dick Radatz would make a great closer. And shouldn't any of the other 3 pitchers appear in front of Luis Tiant?
Reds: Eppa Rixey.
Giants: Jeff Kent. Roger Bresnahan. Freddie Lindstrom, even. It isn't hard to be better than Doug Rader. Ross Youngs. Larry Doyle. Roger Connor. Maybe Robb Nen?
Dodgers: A great reliever in Jim Brewer. Or Gagne. Babe Herman. Gil Hodges. Tommie Davis.
Cubs: Shouldn't Maddux be a Brave? Mordecai Brown. Bill Dahlen. Billy Herman.
Astros: Jimmy Wynn, by a mile and a half. Bob Watson. Glenn Davis.
A's - Eddie Collins. Frank Baker. Al Simmons. Miguel Tejada. Bob Johnson. Jason Giambi. Dennis Eckersley. Eddie Plank. Jimmie Foxx.
Dryden, I started with the RBI Arcade rosters, so some of their decisions are the ones you're complaining about.
The Astros have Watson, and Davis gave way to Jeff Bagwell. Wynn... there's an argument there, and I'll probably make that change in the next revision.
Maddux: he won a Cy Young as a Cub, and Glavine deserved to be included, so I'd have had to bump Niekro or Burdette to include both of them, and that seemed wrong.
I thought about Eckersley last night, and I'm leaning towards adding him, but it may have to be at the expense of Rollie Fingers.
The Blue Jays need a team. They were reigning World Champs for three years in a row.
Considering:
Eckersley is 10 times the reliever Fingers is
Lew Burdette sucks (career ERA+ 98), and Maddux won, um, 3 cy youngs with the Braves. If you want to go back far enough, Kid Nichols is one of the very finest pitchers in major league history.
Doug Rader over Glenn Davis? Not on Doug Rader's very best day.
Quote from: quietude on 08/15/06, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: ultimate7 on 08/15/06, 02:24:56 PM
http://dee-nee.com/rbi/roms/
Quote
Ultimate7's RBI Arcade II - Dee-Nee Forum veteran Ultimate7 created a ROM with in the spirit of RBI Arcade, yet used 10 new teams - Pirates, Royals, Phillies, Tigers, WhiteSox, Indians, Orioles, Brewers, Expos, and Twins. Click here for full rosters and abilities..
Huh. Awesome. Didn't see that. Thanks for saving me the work of doing it myself!
It is like 1920-1987 so if you want all-time teams, you'll have to update for current years.