I thought when I was browsing through old posts that someone had a system for ranking a team's batters or pitchers, but I can't seem to find it now. This does not mean applying ratings to them, this means that after the ratings are done, it assesses how strong a team is in batting and pitching based on their power, contact, speed, etc. I thought it talked about pitchers not really working as well as batters...
Anyways, I'm asking because I want to run my ratings through some kind of automated system, and I'd like not not have to develop one on my own :)
If this doesn't exist...anyone care to discuss a system such as this that we could implement? I know a lot can be based on preference, but I'm just talking a good base...
I know Darky has complex algorithms for determining player rankings.
I've tried mathematical ratings but I feel like they always fall way short. How do you account for Contact vs Speed vs Power? Darrel Evans has shit for contact and speed but is a force of a hitter. It's impossible to give credit to a role player like Coleman or Lopes without making Darrel Evans poo.
And that's for ranking individuals, which is waaay easier than ranking teams or units.
Things like batting order and benches are kinds of mathematical intangibles that make a team better or worse but can't be accounted for.
Pitching is even worse. I'd much rather have 2 average starting pitchers than one awesome and one shitty (assuming multiple games are being played) but a mathematical solution wouldn't account for something like that.
I think you're asking for trouble trying to be too formulaic.
Quote from: tecmoturd on 01/29/10, 12:58:46 PM
I thought when I was browsing through old posts that someone had a system for ranking a team's batters or pitchers, but I can't seem to find it now. This does not mean applying ratings to them, this means that after the ratings are done, it assesses how strong a team is in batting and pitching based on their power, contact, speed, etc. I thought it talked about pitchers not really working as well as batters...
Anyways, I'm asking because I want to run my ratings through some kind of automated system, and I'd like not not have to develop one on my own :)
If this doesn't exist...anyone care to discuss a system such as this that we could implement? I know a lot can be based on preference, but I'm just talking a good base...
I have a system.
Can you post an excel file your players stats (I need Hand, Power, Power Penalty, & Speed).
I will fine tune it for you so you can put different weights on the above categories.
Actually, I can...I had meant to post these anyways...
http://rbibaseball.us/roster.txt
Here you go.
Steps:
1. Start in the 'Rank' tab of the excel file.
2. Go to cells R12 - R14. Rank importance for each of the categories (0 to 10).
(My defaulted values give a pretty good importance to having a good contact rating, a good importance to speed, and a fairly heavy advantage to being a lefty. See the grid in cells Q4 - AB7 for definitions.)
3. Press the "Paste" Macro Button.
4. Press the "Sort" Macro Button.
With my default settings, Howard comes out #1. SSizmr comes in dead last.
Note: I did not rank pitchers. I also did not take into consideration PH bonuses.
Awesome, thanks brother.
So this just ranks individuals, not teams as a whole? Sorry, I can't open it at work to verify for myself.
Ive always been skeptical of ranking individual players as completely accurate as possible.
With these NES games and some of the limitations that are endemic to how the outcomes are decided on the field, I feel its much more important to get "the team right"...if that means a star player suffers a bit with ability, or a bunch of average guys are benefited with better ability so be it.
Thinking about the Yankees pitching a few years back. Overall the staff was really suspect, despite there being some big named guys there. If you made Johnson, Petite and Rivera all to their potential ability, all of a sudden the RBI yankees would be loaded with an awesome staff when it just wasnt the case that particular season.
using this an an example perhaps Rivera needed awesome stuff, but little stamina. Johnson could throw heat like crazy but also with little stamina. The players would still get their due to an extent, but it would mimic the issues the yankee staff faced that season.
This could be translated to batting orders as well. Some big bat would have to suffer the ratings disparity to make the team more accurate. $.002
I do agree with this concept, Brad. After playing loads of games on here, save for a few instances, I feel I accomplished that. The good teams are good, the bad ones are bad, etc.
That's actually why I wanted this. I wanted an overview of teams to see if my individual ratings didn't inflate a team's value.
Quote from: tecmoturd on 01/29/10, 02:44:25 PM
So this just ranks individuals, not teams as a whole? Sorry, I can't open it at work to verify for myself.
Yeah, just individuals.
I guess rating a team is pretty subjective depending on when you would use pinch hitters and whatnot.
Would you just take a straight average of all the batters, just the starting lineup, or maybe you only weight bench players at 50%?
I added a section on the 'Rank' tab.
You will have to sort from largest to smallest.
Column V: All Batters
Column Z: Starters Only
Column AA: Bench Only
Column AB: Formula I pulled out of my ass.*
* I eliminate the worst starter from each team and replace him with the best bench guy. I then take the reamining bench and weight them at 50%.
This is how I would rank them given my default settings.
Phillies
Yankees
Red Sox
Rays
Rockies
Rangers
Angels
Diamondbacks
Twins
Brewers
Blue Jays
White Sox
Giants
Nationals
Marlins
Dodgers
Cubs
Orioles
Braves
Mets
Astros
Cardinals
Padres
Tigers
Mariners
Indians
Reds
Royals
Athletics
Pirates
Interesting. I'll have to look at this more when I get home tonight. Thanks for the help.
Nice work my man, that sheet is very nice...I'll have to keep that for future reference...
Quote from: tecmoturd on 01/29/10, 07:21:46 PM
Nice work my man, that sheet is very nice...I'll have to keep that for future reference...
Yeah, I wasn't too sure how to best come up with the team rankings, but you can play with the formulas all you want.
I think pitching is way too difficult to come up with an algorhthm as there are just too many variables other than the inputs (ie... difference between fastball and curveball speed, which I find a very good stat). I also think it is just way too subjective depending on pitching style.
Many people on here believe Tudor is hands down the best pitcher in the game.
However, I would probably rank him 5th or 6th.
I think Ryan and Blylvn are the two best pitchers in the game.
No problem, this is sufficient...not sure what I'll even use this for, but I'm a collector of things such as this...I have a lot of TSB information I don't use either, but someday I might have an idea for a league or something and collecting that crap pays off :)
Quote from: tecmoturd on 01/29/10, 10:39:10 PM
No problem, this is sufficient...not sure what I'll even use this for, but I'm a collector of things such as this...I have a lot of TSB information I don't use either, but someday I might have an idea for a league or something and collecting that crap pays off :)
Is there a TSB editor around yet that you don't have to be a computer programmer to figure out?
I would love to custom make a TSB ROM.
Quote from: tecmoturd on 01/29/10, 12:58:46 PM
I thought when I was browsing through old posts that someone had a system for ranking a team's batters or pitchers, but I can't seem to find it now. This does not mean applying ratings to them, this means that after the ratings are done, it assesses how strong a team is in batting and pitching based on their power, contact, speed, etc. I thought it talked about pitchers not really working as well as batters...
Anyways, I'm asking because I want to run my ratings through some kind of automated system, and I'd like not not have to develop one on my own :)
There was a discussion in the past about this, but it was only talk and I never really went into detail about how I rank the individual players, and this is in the context of watch mode. I have discussed the Contact vs Speed vs Power formula and how they are interrelated in terms of creating a single module for offensive production---and the stats can support my algorithm rankings in terms of individual offensive production and team offensive production. Stats are the evidence, not opinions. And I have some great data from all the Fantasy RBI seasons.
In any case, this is too broad and complex of a topic to delve into right now. I need to get back up to speed on everything and I'll share what I see behind how I compute the parameters together to give me a good read on how the relationship between Contact and Power work together and how speed is factored in only the realm of overall offensive production---like extra basehits, SB's,runs, and hits.
As far as pitching is concerned, it's a bit trickier but I feel I do have a good grasp on who represents what tier they belong in. I think I have a 3 tier system and subsets of those tiers to categorize the pitchers somewhat accurately. And the best support I can give to my assertions is the data that I have from the 5 Fantasy RBI seasons. I used the stats from seasons I-IV to pick a solid pitching staff for my team, and it worked out well---my team had the best ERA in the league last season. I examined some specific pitching statistics with some ratios that seemed to help me project their performances within a reasonable accurate range. I did look into some anomalies and I am not done with that yet---and it is in regards to the relief pitchers.
Woah, thanks Darky. That post is way too long to read in full on my phone. I'll give it proper attentin when I get to a computer.
And yes, there are several tools available for TSB. I can help you with whatever you need, as well as show you some of the mechanics behnd the scenes to make your game play better if you want. Hit me up anytime.
Screw it, I just read your post, and I have to say, I'm a very interested in your data and formulas. This can only help me make my ratings for my ROMS even better. Any time you're ready, so am I.
i'm not sure if darky would disagree with this, but, as a two time champion of the watch league, i believe the "speed" rating for batters is not as important in watch games as it is in player v player competition.
Quote from: tecmoturd on 01/30/10, 08:00:37 AM
Screw it, I just read your post, and I have to say, I'm a very interested in your data and formulas. This can only help me make my ratings for my ROMS even better. Any time you're ready, so am I.
It's going to take a while, I still need to finish up the stats from last Fantasy RBI season and reevaluate my ranking system. I'm not suggesting it's perfect but it does give me a good idea. TBG has a ranking system as well and I've studied how he drafted players to fit his philosophy. It's pretty sound and you can ask him about his approach in a pm---he's really private with it.
Quote from: TβG on 01/31/10, 07:54:01 PM
i'm not sure if darky would disagree with this, but, as a two time champion of the watch league, i believe the "speed" rating for batters is not as important in watch games as it is in player v player competition.
Well TBG, I've seen how significant speed is in watch games and I've seen how it's just as equally important in player vs player games. More teem speed equals more total bases on hits that are not homeruns. I've seen plenty of slow runners go from first to third base get tagged out at third base on a base hit as well as going from second to home. Players with a speed rating of below 130 can really hurt you on the basepaths. There are other situations I can illustrate here, but I'll just focus on this element of speed and how it impacts the game.
The two teams in the finals last year of the FRBI V season had above average team speed and led the league in a lot of offensive categories. Basically, speed is going to give you more opportunities to keep the inning going (called safe on force plays/inf singles) as well as produce more runs and take extra bases that result in runs.
A good example is if you have a player at first base with a speed rating of 134 or better, the chances are far greater for him to score from first base on a double as opposed to a player with a speed rating of say 130 or lower. Say there are two outs and the runner from first base stops at third on a double, then the next batter ends the inning and that run never happens. I've seen that a lot of times over all the games I scored in watch mode. And that is just one example of many others of how having above average speed benefits a team in many ways. Now I do understand that power is supreme in RBI watch mode, but if a player with great power ratings is really slow, it sort of evens out in the long run. Nomaaa and Beefmaster's team was a good example of that.
Yeah - I went with a "power uber alles" philosophy when drafting, and it didn't work out too well, although I'd point out that I've pretty much always had a team that was competitive with similar strategy in previous leagues (I'm a 2 or 3-time World Series loser, kind of the Vikings of Fantasy RBI).
Quote from: BeefMaster on 02/01/10, 10:14:29 AM
Yeah - I went with a "power uber alles" philosophy when drafting, and it didn't work out too well, although I'd point out that I've pretty much always had a team that was competitive with similar strategy in previous leagues (I'm a 2 or 3-time World Series loser, kind of the Vikings of Fantasy RBI).
You did well last season. You got to the playoffs but your bats disappeared against the number 2 pitching staff in the league (Fighting Artichokes). And I don't think you had the best pitching staff. Live by the long ball die by the long ball lol. The power orientated approach wins in the league--no doubt about that---but I've observed that high power rated players with low contact ratings can really disappear in stretches----they are too streaky. And if they can't run, then it can be an offensive problem. I think nomaaa's team had great power, but also hit into the most double plays due to the lack of team speed.
I completely ignored pitching - I haven't seen much of a pattern to pitching abilities, so I generally treat them like kickers and defenses in fantasy football, making sure I have a full starting 8 and maybe even one or two bench guys before I worry about pitchers. About the only thing I worry about from a pitching perspective is avoiding the 12-stamina relievers.
Quote from: Dårky on 02/02/10, 06:36:55 AM
but I've observed that high power rated players with low contact ratings can really disappear in stretches----they are too streaky.
you mean high contact ratings (which are worse) right?
Quote from: TβG on 02/02/10, 01:27:44 PM
you mean high contact ratings (which are worse) right?
Yeah, that is what I meant. I got mixed up there. Lindeman comes to mind of a productive player who is really streaky---high power rating (861) but below average contact rating (38).
Good discussion from the past and something to chew on before the draft! And I just found my historical stats excel file with all seasons combined! And they are classified until 2035 :P