Ranking a team after the ratings are done

[Turd]

I thought when I was browsing through old posts that someone had a system for ranking a team's batters or pitchers, but I can't seem to find it now.  This does not mean applying ratings to them, this means that after the ratings are done, it assesses how strong a team is in batting and pitching based on their power, contact, speed, etc. I thought it talked about pitchers not really working as well as batters...

Anyways, I'm asking because I want to run my ratings through some kind of automated system, and I'd like not not have to develop one on my own

If this doesn't exist...anyone care to discuss a system such as this that we could implement?  I know a lot can be based on preference, but I'm just talking a good base...

[Re-Peat]

I know Darky has complex algorithms for determining player rankings.

I've tried mathematical ratings but I feel like they always fall way short.  How do you account for Contact vs Speed vs Power?  Darrel Evans has shit for contact and speed but is a force of a hitter.  It's impossible to give credit to a role player like Coleman or Lopes without making Darrel Evans poo.

And that's for ranking individuals, which is waaay easier than ranking teams or units.

Things like batting order and benches are kinds of mathematical intangibles that make a team better or worse but can't be accounted for.

Pitching is even worse.  I'd much rather have 2 average starting pitchers than one awesome and one shitty (assuming multiple games are being played) but a mathematical solution wouldn't account for something like that.

I think you're asking for trouble trying to be too formulaic. 

[Stock]

I thought when I was browsing through old posts that someone had a system for ranking a team's batters or pitchers, but I can't seem to find it now.  This does not mean applying ratings to them, this means that after the ratings are done, it assesses how strong a team is in batting and pitching based on their power, contact, speed, etc. I thought it talked about pitchers not really working as well as batters...

Anyways, I'm asking because I want to run my ratings through some kind of automated system, and I'd like not not have to develop one on my own

If this doesn't exist...anyone care to discuss a system such as this that we could implement?  I know a lot can be based on preference, but I'm just talking a good base...

I have a system.
Can you post an excel file your players stats (I need Hand, Power, Power Penalty, & Speed).
I will fine tune it for you so you can put different weights on the above categories.

[Turd]

Actually, I can...I had meant to post these anyways...

http://rbibaseball.us/roster.txt

[Stock]

Here you go.

Steps:

1.  Start in the 'Rank' tab of the excel file.
2.  Go to cells R12 - R14.  Rank importance for each of the categories (0 to 10).
(My defaulted values give a pretty good importance to having a good contact rating, a good importance to speed, and a fairly heavy advantage to being a lefty.  See the grid in cells Q4 - AB7 for definitions.)
3.  Press the "Paste" Macro Button.
4.  Press the "Sort" Macro Button.


With my default settings, Howard comes out #1.  SSizmr comes in dead last.

Note:  I did not rank pitchers.  I also did not take into consideration PH bonuses.

[Turd]

Awesome, thanks brother.

[Turd]

So this just ranks individuals, not teams as a whole? Sorry, I can't open it at work to verify for myself. 

[TbT]

Ive always been skeptical of ranking individual players as completely accurate as possible.

With these NES games and some of the limitations that are endemic to how the outcomes are decided on the field, I feel its much more important to get "the team right"...if that means a star player suffers a bit with ability, or a bunch of average guys are benefited with better ability so be it.

Thinking about the Yankees pitching a few years back.  Overall the staff was really suspect, despite there being some big named guys there.  If you made Johnson, Petite and Rivera all to their potential ability, all of a sudden the RBI yankees would be loaded with an awesome staff when it just wasnt the case that particular season.

using this an an example perhaps Rivera needed awesome stuff, but little stamina.  Johnson could throw heat like crazy but also with little stamina.  The players would still get their due to an extent, but it would mimic the issues the yankee staff faced that season. 

This could be translated to batting orders as well.  Some big bat would have to suffer the ratings disparity to make the team more accurate.  $.002

   

[Turd]

I do agree with this concept, Brad. After playing loads of games on here, save for a few instances, I feel I accomplished that. The good teams are good, the bad ones are bad, etc.

[Turd]

That's actually why I wanted this. I wanted an overview of teams to see if my individual ratings didn't inflate a team's value.

[Stock]

So this just ranks individuals, not teams as a whole? Sorry, I can't open it at work to verify for myself. 

Yeah, just individuals.
I guess rating a team is pretty subjective depending on when you would use pinch hitters and whatnot.
Would you just take a straight average of all the batters, just the starting lineup, or maybe you only weight bench players at 50%?

I added a section on the 'Rank' tab.
You will have to sort from largest to smallest.
Column V:  All Batters
Column Z:  Starters Only
Column AA:  Bench Only
Column AB:  Formula I pulled out of my ass.*

* I eliminate the worst starter from each team and replace him with the best bench guy.  I then take the reamining bench and weight them at 50%.
This is how I would rank them given my default settings.

Phillies
Yankees
Red Sox
Rays
Rockies
Rangers
Angels
Diamondbacks
Twins
Brewers
Blue Jays
White Sox
Giants
Nationals
Marlins
Dodgers
Cubs
Orioles
Braves
Mets
Astros
Cardinals
Padres
Tigers
Mariners
Indians
Reds
Royals
Athletics
Pirates

[Turd]

Interesting. I'll have to look at this more when I get home tonight. Thanks for the help.

[Turd]

Nice work my man, that sheet is very nice...I'll have to keep that for future reference...

[Stock]

Nice work my man, that sheet is very nice...I'll have to keep that for future reference...

Yeah, I wasn't too sure how to best come up with the team rankings, but you can play with the formulas all you want.

I think pitching is way too difficult to come up with an algorhthm as there are just too many variables other than the inputs (ie... difference between fastball and curveball speed, which I find a very good stat).  I also think it is just way too subjective depending on pitching style.
Many people on here believe Tudor is hands down the best pitcher in the game.
However, I would probably rank him 5th or 6th.
I think Ryan and Blylvn are the two best pitchers in the game.

[Turd]

No problem, this is sufficient...not sure what I'll even use this for, but I'm a collector of things such as this...I have a lot of TSB information I don't use either, but someday I might have an idea for a league or something and collecting that crap pays off

[Stock]

No problem, this is sufficient...not sure what I'll even use this for, but I'm a collector of things such as this...I have a lot of TSB information I don't use either, but someday I might have an idea for a league or something and collecting that crap pays off

Is there a TSB editor around yet that you don't have to be a computer programmer to figure out?
I would love to custom make a TSB ROM.

[Darky]

I thought when I was browsing through old posts that someone had a system for ranking a team's batters or pitchers, but I can't seem to find it now.  This does not mean applying ratings to them, this means that after the ratings are done, it assesses how strong a team is in batting and pitching based on their power, contact, speed, etc. I thought it talked about pitchers not really working as well as batters...

Anyways, I'm asking because I want to run my ratings through some kind of automated system, and I'd like not not have to develop one on my own

There was a discussion in the past about this, but it was only talk and I never really went into detail about how I rank the individual players, and this is in the context of watch mode. I have discussed the Contact vs Speed vs Power formula and how they are interrelated in terms of creating a single module for offensive production---and the stats can support my algorithm rankings in terms of individual offensive production and team offensive production. Stats are the evidence, not opinions. And I have some great data from all the Fantasy RBI seasons.

In any case, this is too broad and complex of a topic to delve into right now. I need to get back up to speed on everything and I'll share what I see behind how I compute the parameters together to give me a good read on how the relationship between Contact and Power work together and how speed is factored in only the realm of overall offensive production---like extra basehits, SB's,runs, and hits.

As far as pitching is concerned, it's a bit trickier but I feel I do have a good grasp on who represents what tier they belong in. I think I have a 3 tier system and subsets of those tiers to categorize the pitchers somewhat accurately. And the best support I can give to my assertions is the data that I have from the 5 Fantasy RBI seasons. I used the stats from seasons I-IV to pick a solid pitching staff for my team, and it worked out well---my team had the best ERA in the league last season. I examined some specific pitching statistics with some ratios that seemed to help me project their performances within a reasonable accurate range. I did look into some anomalies and I am not done with that yet---and it is in regards to the relief pitchers.

[Turd]

Woah, thanks Darky. That post is way too long to read in full on my phone. I'll give it proper attentin when I get to a computer.

And yes, there are several tools available for TSB. I can help you with whatever you need, as well as show you some of the mechanics behnd the scenes to make your game play better if you want. Hit me up anytime.

[Turd]

Screw it, I just read your post, and I have to say, I'm a very interested in your data and formulas. This can only help me make my ratings for my ROMS even better. Any time you're ready, so am I.

[TβG]

i'm not sure if darky would disagree with this, but, as a two time champion of the watch league, i believe the "speed" rating for batters is not as important in watch games as it is in player v player competition.