Dee-Nee Forums

There are so many variations on the Boston lineup, that I decided to make a poll.  Quite a few people say they bat Armas 8th, interesting...

Personally I go for the leadoff spot since there typcially aren't any runners on 1st, lessening the chance of a double play...

I bat him 2nd, always.  Burks leadoff and Hendu 8th!

8 hole, save Hendu for situational, Burks 1

You go the full game with Buckner then, how does that work out for you?  The BoSox lineup can use more lefties, but I typically don't have much luck with him...

Lots of vote for #8...   If you are playing curve, won't most people toss around him to get to the pitcher? 

I tend to go Burks 1, Hendu 2, and then put Armas in the 8 spot.  However, I rarely play RBI the same way twice in a row, so who knows what I'd really do if I were to play right now.  A lot of the time I'll save most of my pinch hitters to sub for the pitchers, or late in the game when I need a homer.

What you hope by batting Armas No. 8 is that he comes up in a situation where putting him on base is not advisable. For example, with runners on and less than two outs, the batting team could intentionally strike out/sacrifice bunt to bring up Burks (my choice for leading off) with an extra runner on base. Against Boston, they're line-up is deep enough where you almost have to bite the bullet and pitch to guys in a lot of situations.

Quote from: ultimate7 on 03/23/05, 03:50:11 PM
8 hole, save Hendu for situational, Burks 1

Same here

Quote from: Gantry on 03/23/05, 03:52:24 PM
You go the full game with Buckner then, how does that work out for you? The BoSox lineup can use more lefties, but I typically don't have much luck with him...

Lots of vote for #8... If you are playing curve, won't most people toss around him to get to the pitcher?

Buckner generally sucks, but I leave him in until a critical situation.  I usually play 1 Starting pitcher, so guys will get pitched around, but it's tough because you waste 5 pitches and don't get an out.

Quote from: Gantry on 03/23/05, 03:52:24 PM
Lots of vote for #8... If you are playing curve, won't most people toss around him to get to the pitcher?

Always...unless you're Noah and think this is a wuss move.

Me being the dolt that I am, I have some sort of mental block about holding onto subs.   I hate having the pitcher bat.

I also hate having a shitty hitter or a hitter who's just had a bad day come to the plate and I not have a PH waiting in the wings.

Back in the olden days, I always left Billy Buck in there.  I was always of the opinion that he and Boggs were similar players.


Of course, I hardly ever played with or against boston.

I really do think that the holding onto a PH is a dolt move.  I respect the opinions of others, but if you think/do this, you are a dolt.

It's funny to me how so many people think forfeiting several outs a game (and killing potential big innings in the process) is okay if you can upgrade a bat for one at bat that might or might not come up.

I've pretty much always batted Armas eighth, using him as a veritable second cleanup hitter.

Burks makes sense at the leadoff spot because of his speed and Hendu usually but not always goes in for Buckner.  Lately I've been like Ultimate where I'll leave Buckner in either until he sucks too much dong or the situation is critical.

I can definitely see myself walking Armas in the tourney if someone is batting him eighth but usc's reasoning also rings true.

Gantry, good point about staying out of the dp.  A problem with Armas in the 8th spot becomes far greater when Gedman is on second base.  The inevitable dp soon follows.

armas 2nd...burks 1st.  spike stays in.  go spike!

8th. The "second cleanup" factor comes heavily into play -- plus, I cannot in good conscience put such a slow, fat fuck on the basepaths ahead of anyone but the pitcher.

Henderson usually sits on the bench for me until I need him. Buckner isn't great, but he usually does OK. Henderson does't do much better except for the first powered-up at-bat.

Also, another thing with Armas is his powered-up at-bat will usually come with runners on base, if you bat him 8th. It's a waste if you put him leadoff.

burks
armas
boggs
rice
baylor
dewy
gedman
hendu

I've used this line-up since I was 8.  Armas is the best hitter on this team, so you must bat him early in the line-up to make sure nobody else in the line-up gets more ABs than him.

Quote from: JoeDirt on 03/23/05, 04:24:12 PM
I really do think that the holding onto a PH is a dolt move.  I respect the opinions of others, but if you think/do this, you are a dolt.

It's funny to me how so many people think forfeiting several outs a game (and killing potential big innings in the process) is okay if you can upgrade a bat for one at bat that might or might not come up.

i agree for the most part, but if i have spike owen coming up for the first time. with 2 outs and no one on, i just leave him in. there is something to be said for saving the power boost for a critical situation, but not too late in the game

8th is the spot.  Subbing out Buckner or Boggs early is a fool's move.  Both players are decent, and you need to save Henderson for a big spot.

Quote from: GDavis on 03/24/05, 12:56:05 PM
8th is the spot.  Subbing out Buckner or Boggs early is a fool's move.  Both players are decent, and you need to save Henderson for a big spot.

Buckner is not decent.  He is terrible. Even if he can pull off a "lefty hit", you can still throw him out from right field.
Only Barrett, Spike, and Sullivan are worse as far as power goes.

Quote from: stockw19 on 03/24/05, 12:59:41 PM
Buckner is not decent.  He is terrible. Even if he can pull off a "lefty hit", you can still throw him out from right field.
Only Barrett, Spike, and Sullivan are worse as far as power goes.

Gedman's rating might be a little better, but he sucks just as much ass as Buckner every time I hit with him. Plus he's a righty, which works against him too. I really notice no practical difference between the two guys over time.

Quote from: capt_taco on 03/25/05, 06:39:59 AM

Quote from: stockw19 on 03/24/05, 12:59:41 PM
Buckner is not decent.  He is terrible. Even if he can pull off a "lefty hit", you can still throw him out from right field.
Only Barrett, Spike, and Sullivan are worse as far as power goes.

Gedman's rating might be a little better, but he sucks just as much ass as Buckner every time I hit with him. Plus he's a righty, which works against him too. I really notice no practical difference between the two guys over time.

Sure, they are similar.  I believe Gedman's power equally makes up the difference for him not being a lefty.  However, the main reason you should take out buck instead of Gedman is that buck bats in the 2 hole.  You need to bat someone much better in the 2 spot to maximize their ABs.
If the game had Gedman batting 2nd and Buckner batting 7th, I would probably bat Armas for Gedman and leave Buckner in the game.

Buckner is not that bad.  I've definately gone yard with him a bunch of times.

not that you're gonna show it at the tourney or anything... :-\

Quote from: JoeDirt on 03/25/05, 09:11:25 AM
not that you're gonna show it at the tourney or anything... :-\

That's what you think bitch.

I know....I'm erect after your PM that you're sending a check! :)

Gotta do it...pics?

Quote from: capt_taco on 03/25/05, 06:39:59 AM

Quote from: stockw19 on 03/24/05, 12:59:41 PM
Buckner is not decent.  He is terrible. Even if he can pull off a "lefty hit", you can still throw him out from right field.
Only Barrett, Spike, and Sullivan are worse as far as power goes.

Gedman's rating might be a little better, but he sucks just as much ass as Buckner every time I hit with him. Plus he's a righty, which works against him too. I really notice no practical difference between the two guys over time.

Another interesting stat regarding Gedman and Buckner.  In our straight pitch league (see the online RBI board), Gedman has 12 homers and Buckner has 0.  True, this is a straight pitch league, and we are not keeping track of batting average, but this still says something.

Quote from: stockw19 on 03/25/05, 12:37:39 PM

Quote from: capt_taco on 03/25/05, 06:39:59 AM

Quote from: stockw19 on 03/24/05, 12:59:41 PM
Buckner is not decent.  He is terrible. Even if he can pull off a "lefty hit", you can still throw him out from right field.
Only Barrett, Spike, and Sullivan are worse as far as power goes.

Gedman's rating might be a little better, but he sucks just as much ass as Buckner every time I hit with him. Plus he's a righty, which works against him too. I really notice no practical difference between the two guys over time.

Another interesting stat regarding Gedman and Buckner.  In our straight pitch league (see the online RBI board), Gedman has 12 homers and Buckner has 0.  True, this is a straight pitch league, and we are not keeping track of batting average, but this still says something.

Is buckner a starter?

Quote from: Ryno on 03/25/05, 12:51:22 PM

Quote from: stockw19 on 03/25/05, 12:37:39 PM

Quote from: capt_taco on 03/25/05, 06:39:59 AM

Quote from: stockw19 on 03/24/05, 12:59:41 PM
Buckner is not decent.  He is terrible. Even if he can pull off a "lefty hit", you can still throw him out from right field.
Only Barrett, Spike, and Sullivan are worse as far as power goes.

Gedman's rating might be a little better, but he sucks just as much ass as Buckner every time I hit with him. Plus he's a righty, which works against him too. I really notice no practical difference between the two guys over time.

Another interesting stat regarding Gedman and Buckner.  In our straight pitch league (see the online RBI board), Gedman has 12 homers and Buckner has 0.  True, this is a straight pitch league, and we are not keeping track of batting average, but this still says something.

Is buckner a starter?

No.  Looks like Gantry has him on the bench.  Pretty sad he can't even hit a home run with the 64-point power boost off the bench.  Gedman has hit 12 bombs from the 8th spot on Lips' team.
Conclusion:  BB/GG (Buckner-Bad; Gedman-Good).  Take Buckner out of the line-up and leave Gedman in.

You can certainly sub out Buckner.  You will simply lose when you play against me.  Bottom line.

I ALWAYS bat Armas leadoff.  He is usually good for a game opening dinger.

Quote from: ultimate7 on 03/23/05, 03:50:11 PM
8 hole, save Hendu for situational, Burks 1

amen

dont be fooled trying to play speed (burks) on leadoff with boston. get the best players up as many times as possible. you dont manufacture runs in RBI unless you're st. louis or houston. armas & hendo bat first & second (some days hendo bats first - depends how they're hitting em in warmups), and ellis in the 8 spot.

How can anyone bat Armas 8th?  Then, when he comes up with two outs, you have the pitcher to contend with and you can simply put him on base (though I guess I should assume intentional walks are illegal in straight pitch?).

Quote from: Nacho on 03/28/05, 08:02:38 PM
How can anyone bat Armas 8th?  Then, when he comes up with two outs, you have the pitcher to contend with and you can simply put him on base (though I guess I should assume intentional walks are illegal in straight pitch?).

Right on the money.  But even in straight pitch, tronblast is right.  You want to put your best players early in the line-up to maximize your number of ABs with your best hitters.  I like to bat Armas second, but only because I bench Buck.  For those of you that insist on leaving buckner in, you must bat armas first.  With the power boost, you can almost count on a homer in half of your ABs to lead of the game in straight pitch.

Wow, the 8 spot is leading by a landslide.  Color me surprised yet again...

Quote from: Gantry on 03/29/05, 11:44:58 AMColor me surprised yet again...

Tick tock you don't stop.  I wanna sex you up.

Quote from: Gantry on 03/29/05, 11:44:58 AM
Wow, the 8 spot is leading by a landslide.  Color me surprised yet again...

Funny thing is, I don't really have a great reason for doing this, it's just the way I've always played the Sox since the days of begging my Mom to rent the game for me

Quote from: Nacho on 03/28/05, 08:02:38 PM
How can anyone bat Armas 8th?  Then, when he comes up with two outs, you have the pitcher to contend with and you can simply put him on base (though I guess I should assume intentional walks are illegal in straight pitch?).

That's fine with me. I'd rather lead off the inning with my leadoff guy anyway. Actually there was a study on MLB saying walking #8 to get to the pitcher isn't the best strategy, because you hit the top of the order the innning after. It's better to get to the top of the order with 1 out instead. And this only applies early in the game. Late in the game, you're going to be pinch hitting, so walking Armas is very dangerous with a suped up PH coming in. BTW I always keep 2 PHs with Boston (curve pitching).

Armas is a base clogger. Bat him 1st or 2nd, and if he gets on, it's strictly station to station.

burks leads off, armas 2nd, hendu 8th

Quote from: MarquisEXB on 03/31/05, 12:45:00 PM

Quote from: Nacho on 03/28/05, 08:02:38 PM
How can anyone bat Armas 8th?  Then, when he comes up with two outs, you have the pitcher to contend with and you can simply put him on base (though I guess I should assume intentional walks are illegal in straight pitch?).

That's fine with me. I'd rather lead off the inning with my leadoff guy anyway. Actually there was a study on MLB saying walking #8 to get to the pitcher isn't the best strategy, because you hit the top of the order the innning after. It's better to get to the top of the order with 1 out instead. And this only applies early in the game. Late in the game, you're going to be pinch hitting, so walking Armas is very dangerous with a suped up PH coming in. BTW I always keep 2 PHs with Boston (curve pitching).

Armas is a base clogger. Bat him 1st or 2nd, and if he gets on, it's strictly station to station.

Well put.  It's something to think about, but I don't like to take the chance of putting such a slow runner yet great power hitter on base, even if it means getting to the top of my lineup in the next inning.  I think Boston's strength lies at the back of the lineup anyway.