Five Worst Players in RBI

[Stock]

You do realize that a close late-game situation in which Hendu is still on the bench would have instead been a comfortable lead if you had put him in immediately instead of saving him for later, right?

Right!  Lets see here.... Hendu with 1 AB/game or Hedu with 4 ABs/game.  I wonder what I would chose??

[ultimate7]

I would choose 1

[Stock]

I would choose 1

I  am still wondering 

[TempoGL]

You do realize that a close late-game situation in which Hendu is still on the bench would have instead been a comfortable lead if you had put him in immediately instead of saving him for later, right?

Not necessarily.  In fact, in most cases, probably not.  Let's say it's 5-4 when I need Henderson's bat (assumedly to hit for the pitcher)  A comfortable lead would have to be at LEAST two runs, so we will hypothesize according to your statement that my lead would be 7-5 if I had subbed Henderson for Spike:

1) Dave Henderson accounted for three runs
2) Dave Henderson is one of the weaker hitters in the Boston lineup (after subbing, he is probably the worst except for Gedman, possibly Boggs)
3) There are eight hitters in the Red Sox lineup (obviously we won't count the pitcher)
4) If Henderson is one of the weaker hitters, the other hitters will have had, on average, as many RBI as Henderson, if not more
5) This means that I would instead have scored 24 runs (Three RBI per player times eight players)

Conclusion:  You are greatly overexaggerating the significance of one player in the lineup.  I prefer to leave Spike in because he is clearly a better hitter than the pitcher, and if you use Burks, Henderson, and Armas, you are essentially left with no pinch-hitter.  This is assuming that Sullivan is worthless, which is something I will believe to my deathbed. 

Would it make more sense to leave in Barrett or Buckner instead of Spike?  Yes.  But I like Spike.  Well, I also like Barrett, but Spike is an underdog. 

[JoeDirt]

leave henderson on the bench...then when the time comes and you need a clutch PH, you put him in. leaving one of them on the bench is vital, because no matter what anyone else says, Marc Sullivan is the worst player in this game by far.

This is possibly the biggest sign of an amateur player.  No offense intended.

[ultimate7]

He could improve his amateur status and start finishing 4th in no time.

Man, I'm a dick

[fightonusc]

I thought the No. 1 sign of an amateur player is their complete inability to cheat?

[JoeDirt]

Ult, you seem to often forget the fact that I destroy you at will!  Will Clark, that is, I suppose.

[ultimate7]

I'm not claiming to not be an amateur, though I will improve on my lifetime 0-5 record against you, I want to win at least 1 of every 5.

[JoeDirt]

will and want are two different things, fella.

[TempoGL]

leave henderson on the bench...then when the time comes and you need a clutch PH, you put him in. leaving one of them on the bench is vital, because no matter what anyone else says, Marc Sullivan is the worst player in this game by far.

This is possibly the biggest sign of an amateur player.  No offense intended.

that statement is wildly inaccurate.  i'm not saying that because he has the worst stats.  if that was my reasoning, that would be amateur.

the biggest sign of an amateur player is not realizing you can't throw fastballs 100% of the time (unless you play like a bitch and use both starters in the same game)

i challenge you to create a ROM with a team of all spike owens and a team of all marc sullivans.  I am willing to bet the Spike team would win every time.

[JoeDirt]

Eh, perhaps I should have been more specific: your theory, in my opinion, is a high sign of somebody who has experience in the game but is far from mastering the game.

The difference in Henderson hitting 8th and coming off the bench is far greater than you think.  For one, any expert player will pitch around Hendu whenever possible (provided rules allow for this).  This gets either gets the pitcher out of the way every time or provides an excellent opportunity for Burks to be up with a runner in scoring position (assuming the P bunts Hendu over).  Further, the necessity to IBB Hendu in the 8 spot really wears on the opposing P.  These are all very strong positions to be in--in addition to having an already mighty line up.  Contrast this with giving two back to back easy outs in Owen and the P.

Also, I don't think you can simply say that Hendu off the bench is better because he provides pop at a time with runners on base.   You get into a situation where you would PH Hendu and any of the following are up, you don't go through with the PH: Burks, Armas, Rice, Baylor, Evans, and perhaps even Gedman/Boggs (depending on P match up). So that theory is wasted.  That leaves you with only the 8 and 9 spots that you'd consistently make this PH if given the opportunity.

Since P is widely recognized as the most important aspect of Anything Goes style of play and since the Bo line up is already stacked, you would be very ill advised to allow an offensive situation dictate when you pull a P.  So, for you to use Hendu in the 9th spot in a bases full type situation, you'd have to coincidentally have a P in who needs to be replaced.  This certainly does happen, but I'm saying that it lessens the likelihood that Hendu will be PH in the 9th spot.  Also, since Owen is ahead of the 9th spot and it's very likely that he made an out, the odds of the 9th spot coming up with bases full (or near full enough to warrant the situational PH) are lessened once again. 

So, in most cases, if the two options are a situational PH in the 9th spot or wasting Hendu on the bench, more than not, you're gonna effectively waste Hendu on the bench.

As for situational PHing Hendu in the 8th spot--I strongly feel you're still largely wasting talent.  For one, all of the times Owen gets out that Hendu would not have gotten out are wasted.  The Bo line up is solid right after the P spot; if you allow 2 "give me" outs (back to back, no less), you are all but forfeiting an inning every 3 innings...not to mention the inning before the likely "forfeited" inning in which you very possibly allowed the P to get out of a potential jam by getting to that 8th/9th spot.

Also, in order to determine the value of siuationally PHing Hendu, you have to subtract the value of situationally PHing Sullivan.  Granted, Sully isn't very good, but he is clearly better than the P (only spot you'd PH Sully at, if all factors worked at just right--P needing to be replaced, men on base, etc.).

And if those factors do not work out, you "wasted" Sully on the bench--and very likely did yourself a favor.

This is why I think the need for Hendu to be available to situationally PH is amateurish.

...just my opinion, however, but clearly well thought out.

[TempoGL]

nice write-up.  strategically, i agree with most of what you say.

however, i think you missed the post earlier in this thread that i finished with "would it be wiser to leave in barrett or buckner instead of spike?  probably"

The reason I leave Spike in is because I like Spike.  Having him in gives me a mental edge over Nacho (who is my opponent 99% of the time)  Additionally, we are just playing a game.  We don't play for money or anything, so if I want to leave my favorite RBI'er in, I'm gonna do it.

[JoeDirt]

For sure...I'm not trying to talk you out of leaving Spike in.  I'm just saying strategically, it makes little sense.

I did miss the "Barrett or Buckner" comment.  Again, not trying to talk you out of anything here (just happen to enjoy a good RBI debate), but I think this is a huge mistake, too.

You let Barrett lead off, and then you have the spot that will always see the most ABs be an easy out.  Further, if you leave Barrett in and I'm starting a R handed pitcher, I'm taking the easy out in Barrett, pitching around whomever you PH in the 2 spot, taking the risk of being able to manipulate the P mismatch with the L handed Boggs, and then hoping I can get one more out to end the inning.  At the very least, I'm likely to have Rice up with a guy on 1st and two outs.  No big inning threat likely.

If you leave Buckner in, you're allowing the 2nd most AB spot be an easy out AND I'm IBBing whomever you lead off with, taking the easy out in the 2 hole (and probably doubling up Buckner often enough), and then taking advantage again of the Boggs mismatch.  If Buckner and Boggs didn't hit into a 2x play, I'm again likely in the situation of a man on 1st and 2 outs with Rice up.

Of course, the entire above is assuming a R handed P.  If I'm using a L handed P, then the mismatch is with all of the other players in the line up.  Now, certainly Rice, Burks, Armas, etc are still deadly even if the P match up is not favorable, but if you leave Barrett or Buckner in, I still have a the match up advantage to all of the powerful hitters and I have the probable outs in either Barrett or Buckner and the P.

[Wilfong]

It's obvious that the Santana's and Pedrique's of the world are the worst in the game - they never hit for 99% of the people who play. Who are the worst five players that you keep in the game?

1. Mookie Wilson
2. Kevin Bass
3. Denny Walling
4. Wade Boggs
5. Bob Brenley

[Nacho]

The only person I agree with on this list is Bass, and Maybe Walling.  I like Mookie Wilson a lot (poor man's Vince Coleman... slap it the opposite way and you'll get on base most of the time), and many have described Boggs as the most underrated player in the game.

I'd have to put Ford on the list, but given the meager StL bench, I usually keep him in.  I'd also put Tony Pena in there, though he comes through on rare occasion.  Pettis isn't too great either, definitely worse than Wilson but still definitely a decent leadoff option.

[ultimate7]

Some people think Bass is worse than Walling?

[BeefMaster]

It's obvious that the Santana's and Pedrique's of the world are the worst in the game - they never hit for 99% of the people who play. Who are the worst five players that you keep in the game?

Tommy Herr
Greg Gagne/Steve Lombardozzi (I usually leave at least one of them in)
Wade Boggs
Everyone on Houston's team
JUribe - I always forget to take him out his first time up

[Stock]

It's obvious that the Santana's and Pedrique's of the world are the worst in the game - they never hit for 99% of the people who play. Who are the worst five players that you keep in the game?

1. Mookie Wilson
2. Kevin Bass
3. Denny Walling
4. Wade Boggs
5. Bob Brenley

I can't believe you keep Walling in the line-up.  He is the worst player on the worst team on the game. (some may argue hatcher is worse, but he at least has above average speed).
Walling has below average speed and has the lowest power numbers out of the 12 Ho hitters.

[Stock]

Who are the worst five players that you keep in the game?

By style of play:
Straight Pitch:
Schrdr
Ford
Larkin
Herr
Cruz

Anything goes
Seitzer
Coleman
Larkin
Herr
Cruz