Not sure if anyone has done a thread like this, but Gantry, you can just delete this if need be.
I think that the top 5 worst players are as follows.
5. John Franco (Worst pitcher ever. Lets up homers left and right when you're trying to get a save.
4. Al Pedrique (Shits his pants better than he hits)
3. Curt Ford (can't hit. Period.)
2. Spike Owen (Would rather have rocks at the plate)
1. Willie Randolf (Automatic out. How can the leadoff batter for Am suck so badly?)
1. Rafael Santana
2. Wally Backman
3. Steve Lake
4. Al Pedrique
I can't really think of a solid 5th. There's a lot of potentials.... maybe Mark Davidson.
1) Rafael Santana
2) Al Pedrique
3) Alan Ashby
4) Spike Owen
5) Wally Backman
I went with starters only.
Starters only:
1) Rafael Santana
2) Whitey Ford
3) Robbie Thompson
4) Al Pedrique
5) Alan Ashby
Wow, tough list to make because I haven't played with some of these guys in years. But:
1) Steve Lake
2) Rafael Santana
3) Al Pedrique
4) Mark Davidson
5) Spike Owen
how did nobody list Marc Sullivan?
He certainly does, but Sullivan has won a few games with walk-off dingers. They are rare, but they happen every once in awhile. Then you forget about the next 90 groundouts...
Santana, Schiraldi, Walling, Dave Smith, Donnie Moore
I have rarely used All-Star teams so I didn't include any.
Starting with the worst:
1. Santana: (Below average speed, worst power and worst contact rating on the game. Hands down the shittiest player on the game. I would prefer a left handed pitcher over batting Santana)
2. Backman
3. Pedriq
4. Rndlph
5. Barret
I didn't include any pitchers. There are just too many bad pitchers on this game.
Quote from: Strassy on 05/08/05, 10:33:51 PM
how did nobody list Marc Sullivan?
Easy. Sullivan is clutch off the bench. I have hit several walk-off homers w/ him. With the 1 AB power surge, he is comparable to Mitchel or Hendrick.
Even w/o the power surge, I would rather have Sullivan at the plate over Walling, Gwynn, Smally, Seitzer, Molitor, Franco, Gllrga, Lake, Herndn, Schrdr, Owen or Davidson (Not to mention my miserable "bottome 5" list.
I wouldn't want Sullivan over a few of those mentioned players, but I agree completely with stock...
No! You guys are wrong/crazy! Sullivan BLOWS. He is as slow as molasses, has a below average power rating, and a contact rating far below average. It's the lack of speed that kills him. He's as fast as Tony Armas, yet without the power. What does that mean? He MIGHT get a single (unlikely with his poor contact rating) or otherwise he will be thrown out. His slowness also makes him a very likely candidate for force plays.
I could care less about contact, speed or anything else, Sullivan goes into the game for one reason. WAY more often than not he doesn't get the dinger, but sometimes he does and wins games. For that he stays off my list....
Yes he sucks ass, but he's an ass sucker with benefits...
Hmmm, lets see.
1) Lou Whitaker
2) Sweet Lou
3) Detroit's 2nd baseman
4) The guy who bats 7 on DT
5) Whitaker
Yup, that about rounds up my five.
Quote from: Gantry on 05/09/05, 10:15:01 AM
Yes he sucks ass, but he's an ass sucker with benefits...
if i had a nickel for every time i heard that one...
Quote from: Strassy on 05/09/05, 10:21:41 AM
Quote from: Gantry on 05/09/05, 10:15:01 AM
Yes he sucks ass, but he's an ass sucker with benefits...
if i had a nickel for every time i heard that one...
Who needs another benefit on top of a good ass sucking?
I'd only list one pitcher here, but he's #1. I don't use all stars very much, but I know that one needs to be there.
1) Calvin Schiraldi - blows more than the typical hurricane
2) Al Pedrique - Even Al subs himself out when playing RBI
3) Marty Barrett - Marty McFly, you are terrible
4) Rafael Santana - It's hard to remember how bad he really
is because I never let him hit
tie anymore
5) Marc Sullivan - I refuse to use him unless it's an emergency
5) Steve Lake - see Sullivan reference
In no particular order (I also went with only starters, since that makes them seem worse in my mind):
Santana
Pedrique
Ford
Ashby
Owen
I can't believe some people list Barrett and not Owen. Before I discovered the wonders of subbing guys out their first time through the lineup, I thought Barrett was almost approaching mediocrity, whereas Owen was unredeemably bad.
Quote from: BeefMaster on 05/09/05, 01:27:44 PM
I can't believe some people list Barrett and not Owen. Before I discovered the wonders of subbing guys out their first time through the lineup, I thought Barrett was almost approaching mediocrity, whereas Owen was unredeemably bad.
I give Owen the
slightest edge over Barret for being a lefty. Otherwise, Barret is clearly better (but still sucks).
Quote from: ericdavisfan on 05/09/05, 12:17:57 PM
1) Calvin Schiraldi - blows more than the typical hurricane
This might be so--but he's no Eric King, who blows more than Ryno on prom night.
In order from worst to fifth worst:
Bottom Five batters:
1. Rafael Santana: Worst power + worst contact = worst player.
2. Spike Owen: At least he's kind of fast - everything else about him sucks balls.
3. Wally Backman: Second-worst power in the game. Only an above average contact rating keeps him from reaching Santana levels of awfulness.
4. Marc Sullivan: Anyone with the worst contact rating in the game (along with Santana and Lindeman) and is as slow as shit as he is makes it into the bottom five, no questions asked.
5. Al Pedriq: Just nudges Steve Lake out by a (pubic) hair. Shitty power (Pedriq) is worse than shitty contact (Lake) every day of the week.
Bottom Five starting pitchers:
1. Don Sutton: An absolute pus-thrower who couldn't break a pane of glass with his pitches.
2. Jack Morris: His pitches don't drop, and they don't curve so good either. Very overrated (much like in real life).
3. Bruce Hurst: Has a good drop pitch, but when that stops working, look out. Gopher Ball City.
4. Mike Scott: See Hurst, Bruce.
5. Frank Viola: Not really bad at anything, but not really good at anything, either.
Bottom Five relief pitchers:
1. Donnie Moore: The absolute worst pitcher in the game. A shotgun blast waiting to happen.
2. Dave Smith: Need someone to groove a fastball down the center of the plate? Here's your man.
3. Calvin Schiraldi: Very Dave Smithesque in his lack of talent, except he has a marginally better curve.
4. Ken Dayley: Can be OK if facing a lefty, otherwise he's useless.
5. Eric King: The reverse of Dayley - OK against righties, shit against lefties.
Can't believe you have Mike Scott in the bottom 5 starters. I think he is in the Top 5. He has incredible drop on his slow balls and has a fastball can reach 100 mph. Sometimes I think he may be better than Ryan.
i can't believe daly and king were the guys i picked on my fantasy team last year. they provided many a nail-bighter (read: pillowbighter), as they gave leads and wins to opposing teams.
Quote from: stockw19 on 05/09/05, 03:11:04 PM
Can't believe you have Mike Scott in the bottom 5 starters. I think he is in the Top 5. He has incredible drop on his slow balls and has a fastball can reach 100 mph. Sometimes I think he may be better than Ryan.
again, i believe this debate will come down to style of play: curve, slurve, straight or ATG.
Quote from: Teddyballgame on 05/09/05, 03:13:53 PM
Quote from: stockw19 on 05/09/05, 03:11:04 PM
Can't believe you have Mike Scott in the bottom 5 starters. I think he is in the Top 5. He has incredible drop on his slow balls and has a fastball can reach 100 mph. Sometimes I think he may be better than Ryan.
again, i believe this debate will come down to style of play: curve, slurve, straight or ATG.
I can't think of any style of play where Scott doesn't make the top 5.
While Scott may be border line for my top 5, he's certainly not in my bottom 5.
wasnt he let go by a fantasy owner in the fantasy RBI league?
I think ShitPaw move him to SP #2, though he was the second pitcher drafted, I believe.
I just think that against a skilled player who can hold off of the drop pitch, he loses a lot of his effectiveness. I'm also going by my RBI Pitcher Efffectiveness Rating Index (RPERI) numbers that I've developed in conjunction with Stats, Inc.
according to my rankings for the draft last year i had scott ranked number three (3) that would be for anything goes. by the way, according to unkown factor #2, the highest ranked pitchers are gooden, key, and alxndr, the best pitchers in the fantasy league (watch game mode). i may have given away my secret to the draft, but perhaps that will shed light on what the unkown ratings do.
Good catch Teddy, anyone have a theory yet?
Quote from: stockw19 on 05/09/05, 03:11:04 PM
He has incredible drop on his slow balls and has a fastball can reach 100 mph.
83-91 mph, before he runs out of stamina. ;)
Nightwulf
Quote from: fightonusc on 05/09/05, 02:54:51 PM
Bottom Five relief pitchers:
1. Donnie Moore: The absolute worst pitcher in the game. A shotgun blast waiting to happen.
2. Dave Smith: Need someone to groove a fastball down the center of the plate? Here's your man.
3. Calvin Schiraldi: Very Dave Smithesque in his lack of talent, except he has a marginally better curve.
4. Ken Dayley: Can be OK if facing a lefty, otherwise he's useless.
5. Eric King: The reverse of Dayley - OK against righties, shit against lefties.
Have you ever played with Franco (NA)? Just play a game with National against a human player and be up by like 3 and put him in. He will give up homer after homer.
Quote from: BeefMaster on 05/09/05, 01:27:44 PM
I can't believe some people list Barrett and not Owen. Before I discovered the wonders of subbing guys out their first time through the lineup, I thought Barrett was almost approaching mediocrity, whereas Owen was unredeemably bad.
When using Boston, Strassy always subs for Barret and Buckner, leaving Owen in. This rarely leads to success, but every few years Owen gets a base hit, and he elatedly proclaims that keeping him in the lineup had been worthwhile. He also claims to have two career homers with Spike.
Even in straight pitch and no slowballs with 2 strikes, Calvin Schiraldi is one of the 3 worst players in the game. His fuckups around the dee-nee house are legendary...
What the hell is this Franco bashing about? I'm going to say it--he's a quality RP (anything goes). He can be lights out for an inning and very easily can handle 2 innings.
Quote from: Nacho on 05/09/05, 07:00:07 PM
Quote from: BeefMaster on 05/09/05, 01:27:44 PM
I can't believe some people list Barrett and not Owen. Before I discovered the wonders of subbing guys out their first time through the lineup, I thought Barrett was almost approaching mediocrity, whereas Owen was unredeemably bad.
When using Boston, Strassy always subs for Barret and Buckner, leaving Owen in. This rarely leads to success, but every few years Owen gets a base hit, and he elatedly proclaims that keeping him in the lineup had been worthwhile. He also claims to have two career homers with Spike.
Spike Owen is a clubhouse leader and a general on the field, leading the Red Sox into battle with courage and diligence. You all would benefit from giving him a chance.
Quote from: JoeDirt on 05/09/05, 09:14:30 PM
What the hell is this Franco bashing about? I'm going to say it--he's a quality RP (anything goes). He can be lights out for an inning and very easily can handle 2 innings.
Agreed, Franco is the man. He's a perfect compliment to the slow shta that Nanod brings. Pure pusss and finesse followed up b wiskcedheat ad nasty movement...and a dnasty stacehe.
DOUCHEBAG MCLANE APOLIIZES FOR BEING A DURNK DOUCHEBAG
Quote from: Strassy on 05/10/05, 12:01:16 AMSpike Owen is a clubhouse leader and a general on the field, leading the Red Sox into battle with courage and diligence. You all would benefit from giving him a chance.
If allow Owen to remain in the game, that means you're leaving either Timmy B, Hendu, or Tony Tits & Ass on the bench. Justify this!
leave henderson on the bench...then when the time comes and you need a clutch PH, you put him in. leaving one of them on the bench is vital, because no matter what anyone else says, Marc Sullivan is the worst player in this game by far.
You do realize that a close late-game situation in which Hendu is still on the bench would have instead been a comfortable lead if you had put him in immediately instead of saving him for later, right?
Quote from: OctogenarianFranco on 05/10/05, 07:54:04 AM
You do realize that a close late-game situation in which Hendu is still on the bench would have instead been a comfortable lead if you had put him in immediately instead of saving him for later, right?
Right! Lets see here.... Hendu with 1 AB/game or Hedu with 4 ABs/game. I wonder what I would chose??
I would choose 1
Quote from: OctogenarianFranco on 05/10/05, 07:54:04 AM
You do realize that a close late-game situation in which Hendu is still on the bench would have instead been a comfortable lead if you had put him in immediately instead of saving him for later, right?
Not necessarily. In fact, in most cases, probably not. Let's say it's 5-4 when I need Henderson's bat (assumedly to hit for the pitcher) A comfortable lead would have to be at LEAST two runs, so we will hypothesize according to your statement that my lead would be 7-5 if I had subbed Henderson for Spike:
1) Dave Henderson accounted for three runs
2) Dave Henderson is one of the weaker hitters in the Boston lineup (after subbing, he is probably the worst except for Gedman, possibly Boggs)
3) There are eight hitters in the Red Sox lineup (obviously we won't count the pitcher)
4) If Henderson is one of the weaker hitters, the other hitters will have had, on average, as many RBI as Henderson, if not more
5) This means that I would instead have scored 24 runs (Three RBI per player times eight players)
Conclusion: You are greatly overexaggerating the significance of one player in the lineup. I prefer to leave Spike in because he is clearly a better hitter than the pitcher, and if you use Burks, Henderson, and Armas, you are essentially left with no pinch-hitter. This is assuming that Sullivan is worthless, which is something I will believe to my deathbed.
Would it make more sense to leave in Barrett or Buckner instead of Spike? Yes. But I like Spike. Well, I also like Barrett, but Spike is an underdog.
Quote from: Strassy on 05/10/05, 03:00:59 AM
leave henderson on the bench...then when the time comes and you need a clutch PH, you put him in. leaving one of them on the bench is vital, because no matter what anyone else says, Marc Sullivan is the worst player in this game by far.
This is possibly the biggest sign of an amateur player. No offense intended.
He could improve his amateur status and start finishing 4th in no time.
Man, I'm a dick
I thought the No. 1 sign of an amateur player is their complete inability to cheat?
Ult, you seem to often forget the fact that I destroy you at will! Will Clark, that is, I suppose.
I'm not claiming to not be an amateur, though I will improve on my lifetime 0-5 record against you, I want to win at least 1 of every 5.
will and want are two different things, fella.
Quote from: JoeDirt on 05/10/05, 01:29:32 PM
Quote from: Strassy on 05/10/05, 03:00:59 AM
leave henderson on the bench...then when the time comes and you need a clutch PH, you put him in. leaving one of them on the bench is vital, because no matter what anyone else says, Marc Sullivan is the worst player in this game by far.
This is possibly the biggest sign of an amateur player. No offense intended.
that statement is wildly inaccurate. i'm not saying that because he has the worst stats. if that was my reasoning, that would be amateur.
the biggest sign of an amateur player is not realizing you can't throw fastballs 100% of the time (unless you play like a bitch and use both starters in the same game)
i challenge you to create a ROM with a team of all spike owens and a team of all marc sullivans. I am willing to bet the Spike team would win every time.
Eh, perhaps I should have been more specific: your theory, in my opinion, is a high sign of somebody who has experience in the game but is far from mastering the game.
The difference in Henderson hitting 8th and coming off the bench is far greater than you think. For one, any expert player will pitch around Hendu whenever possible (provided rules allow for this). This gets either gets the pitcher out of the way every time or provides an excellent opportunity for Burks to be up with a runner in scoring position (assuming the P bunts Hendu over). Further, the necessity to IBB Hendu in the 8 spot really wears on the opposing P. These are all very strong positions to be in--in addition to having an already mighty line up. Contrast this with giving two back to back easy outs in Owen and the P.
Also, I don't think you can simply say that Hendu off the bench is better because he provides pop at a time with runners on base. You get into a situation where you would PH Hendu and any of the following are up, you don't go through with the PH: Burks, Armas, Rice, Baylor, Evans, and perhaps even Gedman/Boggs (depending on P match up). So that theory is wasted. That leaves you with only the 8 and 9 spots that you'd consistently make this PH if given the opportunity.
Since P is widely recognized as the most important aspect of Anything Goes style of play and since the Bo line up is already stacked, you would be very ill advised to allow an offensive situation dictate when you pull a P. So, for you to use Hendu in the 9th spot in a bases full type situation, you'd have to coincidentally have a P in who needs to be replaced. This certainly does happen, but I'm saying that it lessens the likelihood that Hendu will be PH in the 9th spot. Also, since Owen is ahead of the 9th spot and it's very likely that he made an out, the odds of the 9th spot coming up with bases full (or near full enough to warrant the situational PH) are lessened once again.
So, in most cases, if the two options are a situational PH in the 9th spot or wasting Hendu on the bench, more than not, you're gonna effectively waste Hendu on the bench.
As for situational PHing Hendu in the 8th spot--I strongly feel you're still largely wasting talent. For one, all of the times Owen gets out that Hendu would not have gotten out are wasted. The Bo line up is solid right after the P spot; if you allow 2 "give me" outs (back to back, no less), you are all but forfeiting an inning every 3 innings...not to mention the inning before the likely "forfeited" inning in which you very possibly allowed the P to get out of a potential jam by getting to that 8th/9th spot.
Also, in order to determine the value of siuationally PHing Hendu, you have to subtract the value of situationally PHing Sullivan. Granted, Sully isn't very good, but he is clearly better than the P (only spot you'd PH Sully at, if all factors worked at just right--P needing to be replaced, men on base, etc.).
And if those factors do not work out, you "wasted" Sully on the bench--and very likely did yourself a favor.
This is why I think the need for Hendu to be available to situationally PH is amateurish.
...just my opinion, however, but clearly well thought out.
nice write-up. strategically, i agree with most of what you say.
however, i think you missed the post earlier in this thread that i finished with "would it be wiser to leave in barrett or buckner instead of spike? probably"
The reason I leave Spike in is because I like Spike. Having him in gives me a mental edge over Nacho (who is my opponent 99% of the time) Additionally, we are just playing a game. We don't play for money or anything, so if I want to leave my favorite RBI'er in, I'm gonna do it.
For sure...I'm not trying to talk you out of leaving Spike in. I'm just saying strategically, it makes little sense.
I did miss the "Barrett or Buckner" comment. Again, not trying to talk you out of anything here (just happen to enjoy a good RBI debate), but I think this is a huge mistake, too.
You let Barrett lead off, and then you have the spot that will always see the most ABs be an easy out. Further, if you leave Barrett in and I'm starting a R handed pitcher, I'm taking the easy out in Barrett, pitching around whomever you PH in the 2 spot, taking the risk of being able to manipulate the P mismatch with the L handed Boggs, and then hoping I can get one more out to end the inning. At the very least, I'm likely to have Rice up with a guy on 1st and two outs. No big inning threat likely.
If you leave Buckner in, you're allowing the 2nd most AB spot be an easy out AND I'm IBBing whomever you lead off with, taking the easy out in the 2 hole (and probably doubling up Buckner often enough), and then taking advantage again of the Boggs mismatch. If Buckner and Boggs didn't hit into a 2x play, I'm again likely in the situation of a man on 1st and 2 outs with Rice up.
Of course, the entire above is assuming a R handed P. If I'm using a L handed P, then the mismatch is with all of the other players in the line up. Now, certainly Rice, Burks, Armas, etc are still deadly even if the P match up is not favorable, but if you leave Barrett or Buckner in, I still have a the match up advantage to all of the powerful hitters and I have the probable outs in either Barrett or Buckner and the P.
It's obvious that the Santana's and Pedrique's of the world are the worst in the game - they never hit for 99% of the people who play. Who are the worst five players that you keep in the game?
1. Mookie Wilson
2. Kevin Bass
3. Denny Walling
4. Wade Boggs
5. Bob Brenley
The only person I agree with on this list is Bass, and Maybe Walling. I like Mookie Wilson a lot (poor man's Vince Coleman... slap it the opposite way and you'll get on base most of the time), and many have described Boggs as the most underrated player in the game.
I'd have to put Ford on the list, but given the meager StL bench, I usually keep him in. I'd also put Tony Pena in there, though he comes through on rare occasion. Pettis isn't too great either, definitely worse than Wilson but still definitely a decent leadoff option.
Some people think Bass is worse than Walling?
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/11/05, 09:56:05 AM
It's obvious that the Santana's and Pedrique's of the world are the worst in the game - they never hit for 99% of the people who play. Who are the worst five players that you keep in the game?
Tommy Herr
Greg Gagne/Steve Lombardozzi (I usually leave at least one of them in)
Wade Boggs
Everyone on Houston's team
JUribe - I always forget to take him out his first time up
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/11/05, 09:56:05 AM
It's obvious that the Santana's and Pedrique's of the world are the worst in the game - they never hit for 99% of the people who play. Who are the worst five players that you keep in the game?
1. Mookie Wilson
2. Kevin Bass
3. Denny Walling
4. Wade Boggs
5. Bob Brenley
I can't believe you keep Walling in the line-up. He is the worst player on the worst team on the game. (some may argue hatcher is worse, but he at least has above average speed).
Walling has below average speed and has the lowest power numbers out of the 12 Ho hitters.
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/11/05, 09:56:05 AM
Who are the worst five players that you keep in the game?
By style of play:
Straight Pitch:
Schrdr
Ford
Larkin
Herr
Cruz
Anything goes
Seitzer
Coleman
Larkin
Herr
Cruz
Quote from: stockw19 on 05/11/05, 10:56:52 AM
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/11/05, 09:56:05 AM
It's obvious that the Santana's and Pedrique's of the world are the worst in the game - they never hit for 99% of the people who play. Who are the worst five players that you keep in the game?
1. Mookie Wilson
2. Kevin Bass
3. Denny Walling
4. Wade Boggs
5. Bob Brenley
I can't believe you keep Walling in the line-up. He is the worst player on the worst team on the game. (some may argue hatcher is worse, but he at least has above average speed).
Walling has below average speed and has the lowest power numbers out of the 12 Ho hitters.
Walling stays in because I hate Hatcher (and he's a righty) and at least Doran and Assby have to come out. Sometimes Reynolds does too. I'll take my chances with Walling over those guys - even though Denny is one of the worst in the game, I can get an occasional bomb from him and he has the advantage of being a lefty.
Juribe
Walling
Brett
Galarraga
Gagne
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/11/05, 11:25:04 AM
Walling stays in because I hate Hatcher (and he's a righty) and at least Doran and Assby have to come out. Sometimes Reynolds does too. I'll take my chances with Walling over those guys - even though Denny is one of the worst in the game, I can get an occasional bomb from him and he has the advantage of being a lefty.
Walling should come out, and you should leave "Assby" in. He is also a lefty and has 27 more power points than Walling-not terrible for the 8-spot. Ideally your 3 hitter should be your best overall hitter, and by leaving Walling in, he is your worst overall hitter.
May I suggest: Lopes, Cruz, Garner, Davis, Bass, Thon, Reynolds, and Ashby for your line-up. You will still have 4 lefties in your line-up and you would have the second best power hitter on Ho in the 3-spot.
Quote from: fknmclane on 05/11/05, 11:48:36 AM
Juribe
Walling
Brett
Galarraga
Gagne
See above... Walling is an absolute piece of RBI shit, and should never bat in the line-up.
Juribe, doesn't deserve to stay in the line-up either, as far as I can see.
Quote from: stockw19 on 05/11/05, 10:58:51 AM
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/11/05, 09:56:05 AM
Who are the worst five players that you keep in the game?
By style of play:
Straight Pitch:
Schrdr
Ford
Larkin
Herr
Cruz
Anything goes
Seitzer
Coleman
Larkin
Herr
Cruz
Personally I think Coleman is valuable in anything goes, I'm suprised you think his value is higher in straight pitch.
I pull his ass in straight pitch.
Quote from: stockw19 on 05/11/05, 11:53:20 AM
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/11/05, 11:25:04 AM
Walling stays in because I hate Hatcher (and he's a righty) and at least Doran and Assby have to come out. Sometimes Reynolds does too. I'll take my chances with Walling over those guys - even though Denny is one of the worst in the game, I can get an occasional bomb from him and he has the advantage of being a lefty.
Walling should come out, and you should leave "Assby" in. He is also a lefty and has 27 more power points than Walling-not terrible for the 8-spot. Ideally your 3 hitter should be your best overall hitter, and by leaving Walling in, he is your worst overall hitter.
May I suggest: Lopes, Cruz, Garner, Davis, Bass, Thon, Reynolds, and Ashby for your line-up. You will still have 4 lefties in your line-up and you would have the second best power hitter on Ho in the 3-spot.
Quote from: fknmclane on 05/11/05, 11:48:36 AM
Juribe
Walling
Brett
Galarraga
Gagne
See above... Walling is an absolute piece of RBI shit, and should never bat in the line-up.
Juribe, doesn't deserve to stay in the line-up either, as far as I can see.
I'm going to give your lineup a shot. I'll give anything a shot with Ho since they're so terrible. Hopefully, I'll be able to get a couple games in tonight and report back tomorrow...
I'm a fan of Coleman's in any style. I go deep with him probably every other game. I also go deep with Oz every few games. I use the retreat strategy with everyone, but, if done correctly, Oz and Vince can put up decent power numbers.
Uribe will never hit for me again, Spillman is the man (against righties).
QuoteUribe will never hit for me again, Spillman is the man (against righties).
Music to my ears...
Stock - you have Larkin on both your lists for keeping in, yet he is a bench player. Unless I'm brain farting or Barry Larkin snuck onto the NL all-stars...
My "bottom five starters"
1) Gagne - I sub half the time
2) Bill Doran - produces for me, but still sucks
3) Ozzie Smith - though has two gimmick hits (pettis and lefty)
4) Kirby Puckett - Bag of ass
5) Jose Cruz - Relatively worthless
From other lists, I don't start Walling (FUCK NO!), Herr, Uribe (disgrace), or Ford. And I don't typically play all-stars. Fun list...
JoeD -
Great writeup
Quote from: Gantry on 05/11/05, 12:31:23 PM
Stock - you have Larkin on both your lists for keeping in, yet he is a bench player. Unless I'm brain farting or Barry Larkin snuck onto the NL all-stars...
Sorry, I interpreted the question to be the 5 worst players that I use for my starting line-up. (Ie... I always take out Gladden for Larkin and use him in my normal line-up.
Quote from: Gantry on 05/11/05, 12:31:23 PM
From other lists, I don't start Walling (FUCK NO!), Herr, Uribe (disgrace), or Ford. And I don't typically play all-stars. Fun list...
I only use Herr in Straight Pitch as this maximizes the total power of the line-up. If I leave Coleman in, then Herr is gone. You can't give both those guys a bat, but one or the other is OK.
I leave Coleman/Ozzie in and do Blank Morris at #3. The beauty of Ozzie and Coleman in straight is that they have gimmick hits for any occasion:
1) Bases empty or no baserunner on first - The Pettis (http://dee-nee.com/rbi/glossary.shtml#PETTIS)
2) Runner on first - the Lefty Hit (http://dee-nee.com/rbi/glossary.shtml#LEFTY)
Of course I don't with Stl enought to be overly proficient with the Pettis, so you really have to practice. And this strategy is only for straight pitch...
My bottom five starting players (who all get taken out):
1. Willie Randolph - No speed, no power, he's a righty...completely and utterly worthless.
2. Alan Ashby - The worst player on the worst team in the game.
3. Bill Schroeder - The only thing that saves him from being worse than Ashby is a good contact rating. Otherwise, a total waste of space.
4. Jose Uribe - Whether you start Spilman or Speier in his place is up to you; but everyone agrees to get Uribe out of there immediately.
5. Marty Barrett - He used to be the master of the "Hidden Ball" play. Which you can't do in RBI Baseball, and since that's the only thing he did well, fuck him.
Quote from: ultimate7 on 05/11/05, 12:02:33 PM
Personally I think Coleman is valuable in anything goes, I'm suprised you think his value is higher in straight pitch.
Agreed. I don't play a whole lot of anything goes, but I'd think that the Pettis would be an option some of the time, since you're likely waiting on the pitch instead of trying to pull one over the fence anyway. Also, Coleman's a menace once he's on base, and baserunning skills are a lot more important in anything goes than straight-pitch.
A difference in straight pitch between Pettis and Coleman is the speed difference. It doesn't seem like much, but The Pettis is so hard to effectively pull off that a good 25-35% of decently placed Pettis hits can be outs when Pettis is hitting over Coleman. It still requires a great throw on the defenders part, but there's a decent % of hits where Coleman can't get out, but Pettis can...
God I fucking hate Gary Pettis...
Quote from: Gantry on 05/11/05, 01:14:53 PM
A difference in straight pitch between Pettis and Coleman is the speed difference. It doesn't seem like much, but The Pettis is so hard to effectively pull off that a good 25-35% of decently placed Pettis hits can be outs when Pettis is hitting over Coleman. It still requires a great throw on the defenders part, but there's a decent % of hits where Coleman can't get out, but Pettis can...
God I fucking hate Gary Pettis...
Pettis blows
Quote
Sorry, I interpreted the question to be the 5 worst players that I use for my starting line-up. (Ie... I always take out Gladden for Larkin and use him in my normal line-up.
Quote
I only use Herr in Straight Pitch as this maximizes the total power of the line-up. If I leave Coleman in, then Herr is gone. You can't give both those guys a bat, but one or the other is OK.
Quote
Have you tried Bush in the leadoff spot? MN has become a completely different (and decent) team since I inserted Bush at the top of the order.
Herr is a monster against me, but never does anything for me. I go with Morris/Lindman in the three spot depending upon what pitcher is on the mound.
As someone else said, Pettis is awful. Most people I play against leave him in because he's fast, huge mistake. I may have thought that way for like two games when I was a rookie, but you learn quickly that he should never, ever get an AB, especially w/CA's bench.
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/12/05, 08:17:23 AM
Quote
Sorry, I interpreted the question to be the 5 worst players that I use for my starting line-up. (Ie... I always take out Gladden for Larkin and use him in my normal line-up.
Quote
I only use Herr in Straight Pitch as this maximizes the total power of the line-up. If I leave Coleman in, then Herr is gone. You can't give both those guys a bat, but one or the other is OK.
Quote
Have you tried Bush in the leadoff spot? MN has become a completely different (and decent) team since I inserted Bush at the top of the order.
Herr is a monster against me, but never does anything for me. I go with Morris/Lindman in the three spot depending upon what pitcher is on the mound.
As someone else said, Pettis is awful. Most people I play against leave him in because he's fast, huge mistake. I may have thought that way for like two games when I was a rookie, but you learn quickly that he should never, ever get an AB, especially w/CA's bench.
Gantry, please don't kill me for this. I can't stand using california in RBI. I play anything goes pitching, and the pitcher gets tired after four innings. So I will have to use two releivers by the 9th. What if I;m down by 1 in the 9th? I can't sub my pitcher. Once again, Gantry please leave me my balls. :)
i'm truely surprised that Sandberg hasn't made anyone's top 5.
Is it because noone uses him?
Quote from: Ryno on 05/12/05, 11:02:01 AM
i'm truely surprised that Sandberg hasn't made anyone's top 5.
Is it because noone uses him?
I don't use him, but even if I did, not sure he would make my top 5.
QuoteGantry, please don't kill me for this. I can't stand using california in RBI. I play anything goes pitching, and the pitcher gets tired after four innings. So I will have to use two releivers by the 9th. What if I;m down by 1 in the 9th? I can't sub my pitcher. Once again, Gantry please leave me my balls. Smiley
A lot of people dislike the pitching for Ca in Anything Goes, no biggie. Though it's typically because of their relievers, not endurance. If you check the team pages, you'll see that both Ca pitchers have very good endurance. The only pitcher who has more endurance than Sutton & Witt is Blyleven. Ryan and Scott have the same endurance, and every other pitcher in the game has less endurance. So for some reason you are throwing more pitches with Ca if they are getting tired...
That or they both throw relatively slow to begin with, so their speed drops get low quickly after their endurance runs out..
Quote from: Gantry on 05/12/05, 11:07:45 AM
If you check the team pages, you'll see that both Ca pitchers have very good endurance.
I don't think i've ever noticed the endurance of Witt and Sutton before. I don't know how I could've missed this. I've always thought they were both 40's. I rarely use CA myself...
I rarely use CA myself...
Quote
That's a shame. CA might not be glamorous, but they can really put a hurtin' on the best of teams out there. If you use their bench correctly, everyone in the order is capable of going yard. I've had several games where every hitter (1-8) hits a bomb.
A lot of people have mentioned streaky hitters? Do you guys think there's more to it (getting bad swings, pitching matchups, etc...) or do you think there's something with the game that decides that Carter just isn't going to go yard in a particular game(s)? I've noticed a ton of streaks lately, Hernandez and Teufel have been tearing it up while Carter and Straw have been weak. Also, I've been going yard with Coleman and Smith fairly regularly after not hitting a bomb with Smith for like 10 years.
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/12/05, 11:37:15 AM
I rarely use CA myself...
Quote
That's a shame. CA might not be glamorous, but they can really put a hurtin' on the best of teams out there. If you use their bench correctly, everyone in the order is capable of going yard. I've had several games where every hitter (1-8) hits a bomb.
A lot of people have mentioned streaky hitters? Do you guys think there's more to it (getting bad swings, pitching matchups, etc...) or do you think there's something with the game that decides that Carter just isn't going to go yard in a particular game(s)? I've noticed a ton of streaks lately, Hernandez and Teufel have been tearing it up while Carter and Straw have been weak. Also, I've been going yard with Coleman and Smith fairly regularly after not hitting a bomb with Smith for like 10 years.
You bring up an interesting point. I don't think the makers of the game put that much logic in the code (since I believe everything runs off of a random number generator). However, I have often wondered how good of a random number generator was used for this game (back in the late 80s). For example, Microsoft Excel has a very shitty random number generator which can likely give long strings of (non-random looking) numbers in a row.
Other softwares such as @Risk (which are built more for simulations) have very good number generators.
A poor number generator can give a feel of having very streaky players.
This idea first came to mind a few years ago when I noticed how streaky McGwire is. There have been countless games where I have gone 0-5 with him (and this is in straight pitch). I have also had several 5-6 home run games with him.
Maybe Nightwulf would have more insight on this?
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/12/05, 11:37:15 AM
Quote
I rarely use CA myself...
That's a shame. CA might not be glamorous, but they can really put a hurtin' on the best of teams out there. If you use their bench correctly, everyone in the order is capable of going yard. I've had several games where every hitter (1-8) hits a bomb.
It's mostly due to the fact that I rarely get to play real people. I usually use the underdogs when playing the CPU (Mets, Astros, Cards).
Quote from: stockw19 on 05/12/05, 11:43:22 AM
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/12/05, 11:37:15 AM
I rarely use CA myself...
Quote
That's a shame. CA might not be glamorous, but they can really put a hurtin' on the best of teams out there. If you use their bench correctly, everyone in the order is capable of going yard. I've had several games where every hitter (1-8) hits a bomb.
A lot of people have mentioned streaky hitters? Do you guys think there's more to it (getting bad swings, pitching matchups, etc...) or do you think there's something with the game that decides that Carter just isn't going to go yard in a particular game(s)? I've noticed a ton of streaks lately, Hernandez and Teufel have been tearing it up while Carter and Straw have been weak. Also, I've been going yard with Coleman and Smith fairly regularly after not hitting a bomb with Smith for like 10 years.
You bring up an interesting point. I don't think the makers of the game put that much logic in the code (since I believe everything runs off of a random number generator). However, I have often wondered how good of a random number generator was used for this game (back in the late 80s). For example, Microsoft Excel has a very shitty random number generator which can likely give long strings of (non-random looking) numbers in a row.
Other softwares such as @Risk (which are built more for simulations) have very good number generators.
A poor number generator can give a feel of having very streaky players.
This idea first came to mind a few years ago when I noticed how streaky McGwire is. There have been countless games where I have gone 0-5 with him (and this is in straight pitch). I have also had several 5-6 home run games with him.
Maybe Nightwulf would have more insight on this?
See this thread:
http://forums.dee-nee.com/index.php?topic=3390.msg42515#msg42515
So is the random number generator a good one or a bad one?
It's not really relevant, unless the RNG is spitting out similar numbers over (very, very) long durations of time. The "randomness" of the game comes both from use of a RNG and the "humanness" of the player. The routine runs sixty times a second, and runs again any time a random number is actually needed.
So, something like observing that McGwire is streaky is not likely to be an RNG issue at all. In between his at-bats, the RNG seeds have been rotated once for each time a random number was needed, and rotated (sixty * number of seconds since he last came to bat). Unless the RNG is returning similar numbers over very long durations (easily thousands of iterations) it's not likely.
Nightwulf
I forget, why do you dickwads sign your posts, as if the originator of the post isn't named in the upper left hand corner of every single post?
JoeDirt
Quote from: JoeDirt on 05/12/05, 09:40:30 PM
I forget, why do you dickwads sign your posts, as if the originator of the post isn't named in the upper left hand corner of every single post?
JoeDirt
I can only hope that you are mocking him.
you people are the ghayest homosexuals ever to bang assholes
ryno
Quote from: JoeDirt on 05/12/05, 09:40:30 PM
I forget, why do you dickwads sign your posts, as if the originator of the post isn't named in the upper left hand corner of every single post?
JoeDirt
Probably for the same reason that you feel it's necessary to incessantly bitch about it.
Nightwulf
Nightwulf has character.
Quote from: PHole717 on 05/12/05, 10:09:52 PM
Quote from: JoeDirt on 05/12/05, 09:40:30 PM
I forget, why do you dickwads sign your posts, as if the originator of the post isn't named in the upper left hand corner of every single post?
JoeDirt
I can only hope that you are mocking him.
The only thing we know for certain is that he cheated while making that post.
Quote from: PHole717 on 05/12/05, 10:09:52 PM
Quote from: JoeDirt on 05/12/05, 09:40:30 PM
I forget, why do you dickwads sign your posts, as if the originator of the post isn't named in the upper left hand corner of every single post?
JoeDirt
I can only hope that you are mocking him.
Duh. Of course I was.
QuoteProbably for the same reason that you feel it's necessary to incessantly bitch about it.
I'm not bitching about it at all--just asking the question. And even so, "incessantly" might be a tad strong, seeing as I've asked the question a total of two times.
JoeDirt
Quote from: Nails on 05/13/05, 07:40:46 AM
Nightwulf has character.
Just because you are a character doesn't mean you have character
The Wolf
Quote from: JoeDirt on 05/12/05, 09:40:30 PM
I forget, why do you dickwads sign your posts, as if the originator of the post isn't named in the upper left hand corner of every single post?
JoeDirt
Bananas are a wonderful fruit.
Bdawk
Quote from: BDawk on 05/13/05, 02:25:45 PM
Quote from: JoeDirt on 05/12/05, 09:40:30 PM
I forget, why do you dickwads sign your posts, as if the originator of the post isn't named in the upper left hand corner of every single post?
JoeDirt
Bananas are a wonderful fruit.
Bdawk
Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring: Banana Phone!!!
PissHole
Quote from: Stock on 05/11/05, 11:53:20 AM
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/11/05, 11:25:04 AM
Walling stays in because I hate Hatcher (and he's a righty) and at least Doran and Assby have to come out. Sometimes Reynolds does too. I'll take my chances with Walling over those guys - even though Denny is one of the worst in the game, I can get an occasional bomb from him and he has the advantage of being a lefty.
Walling should come out, and you should leave "Assby" in. He is also a lefty and has 27 more power points than Walling-not terrible for the 8-spot. Ideally your 3 hitter should be your best overall hitter, and by leaving Walling in, he is your worst overall hitter.
May I suggest: Lopes, Cruz, Garner, Davis, Bass, Thon, Reynolds, and Ashby for your line-up. You will still have 4 lefties in your line-up and you would have the second best power hitter on Ho in the 3-spot.
Quote from: fknmclane on 05/11/05, 11:48:36 AM
Juribe
Walling
Brett
Galarraga
Gagne
See above... Walling is an absolute piece of RBI shit, and should never bat in the line-up.
Juribe, doesn't deserve to stay in the line-up either, as far as I can see.
I played w/Houston yesterday and lost. I couldn't remember your lineup, so I pulled Assby and put in Puhl instead. Maybe tonight I can use your lineup.
What's the reasoning for going with Thon instead of Puhl at 6? I generally have more success with TP, but maybe Thon's power numbers are better?
Quote from: Wilfong on 08/24/05, 09:23:06 AM
Quote from: Stock on 05/11/05, 11:53:20 AM
Quote from: Wilfong on 05/11/05, 11:25:04 AM
Walling stays in because I hate Hatcher (and he's a righty) and at least Doran and Assby have to come out. Sometimes Reynolds does too. I'll take my chances with Walling over those guys - even though Denny is one of the worst in the game, I can get an occasional bomb from him and he has the advantage of being a lefty.
Walling should come out, and you should leave "Assby" in. He is also a lefty and has 27 more power points than Walling-not terrible for the 8-spot. Ideally your 3 hitter should be your best overall hitter, and by leaving Walling in, he is your worst overall hitter.
May I suggest: Lopes, Cruz, Garner, Davis, Bass, Thon, Reynolds, and Ashby for your line-up. You will still have 4 lefties in your line-up and you would have the second best power hitter on Ho in the 3-spot.
Quote from: fknmclane on 05/11/05, 11:48:36 AM
Juribe
Walling
Brett
Galarraga
Gagne
See above... Walling is an absolute piece of RBI shit, and should never bat in the line-up.
Juribe, doesn't deserve to stay in the line-up either, as far as I can see.
I played w/Houston yesterday and lost. I couldn't remember your lineup, so I pulled Assby and put in Puhl instead. Maybe tonight I can use your lineup.
What's the reasoning for going with Thon instead of Puhl at 6? I generally have more success with TP, but maybe Thon's power numbers are better?
Sometimes I use Puhl in the 6 spot too. Generally, I use Thon just because he has a little bit better power numbers (783 vs 768). However, Puhl is faster (136 vs 132) and a lefty. If you are playing a seasoned ATG player, Puhl is probably your man.
Edit: Just went and looked at my player power rankings. I actually have Puhl ranked 86th and Thon ranked 87th. Maybe I should listen to my own rankings and start using Puhl more often.
you have all the players ranked in each category? that's quite impressive. i think Puhl might be the man for the 6 hole, but he can also be a valuable PH late in the game - kind of like how I wait until it's a super clutch situation late in the game to use Oquendo on the Cards (he fueled a 6 run comeback in the 9th for me yesterday.
I leave Doran with Cheese in the game. To me, there is little difference between Puhl and Doran, so save Puhl for a clutch pinch-hit situation somewhere in the game. It's like you are subbing out a guy for the same exact player...
Quote from: Gantry on 08/24/05, 10:46:43 AM
I leave Doran with Cheese in the game. To me, there is little difference between Puhl and Doran, so save Puhl for a clutch pinch-hit situation somewhere in the game. It's like you are subbing out a guy for the same exact player...
Agreed
Quote from: Wilfong on 08/24/05, 10:37:29 AM
you have all the players ranked in each category? that's quite impressive. i think Puhl might be the man for the 6 hole, but he can also be a valuable PH late in the game - kind of like how I wait until it's a super clutch situation late in the game to use Oquendo on the Cards (he fueled a 6 run comeback in the 9th for me yesterday.
I have that too. When I said "power" rankings, I wasn't referring only to power. I was referring to an overall rating. Kind of like how ESPN has power rankings for NFL teams. Although Thon has more power than Puhl, Puhl's speed, better contact, and his left handedness give him an overall better ranking.
Stock, we need those rankings on the RBIdb - I think... Any chance you can put the ranking on there for all the players? If not, post your documents and I'll add them...
Quote from: Gantry on 08/24/05, 10:46:43 AM
I leave Doran with Cheese in the game. To me, there is little difference between Puhl and Doran, so save Puhl for a clutch pinch-hit situation somewhere in the game. It's like you are subbing out a guy for the same exact player...
Good point Gantry. If you are playing ATG, no point in putting in Puhl for Doran. They are the exact same player save for 3 power points. However in str8 pitch (or batting practice play), you may want to put in Thon to get ~4 additional at bats with 18 more power points.
Also, when being Houston, it is probably since I was unlucky and pulled them out of a hat or landed on them with a blind selection. In this case, there may not be later innings, so you want the best possible line-up just to get you to the 7+ inning point.
I can see the case for Thon, mostly because of the fact he's a righty. But Puhl needs to stay on the bench for an opportune situation...
Quote from: Gantry on 08/24/05, 10:51:46 AM
Stock, we need those rankings on the RBIdb - I think... Any chance you can put the ranking on there for all the players? If not, post your documents and I'll add them...
Check out reply #24 here:
http://forums.dee-nee.com/index.php?topic=7003.20
This file is interactive, so you can choose to give more/less weight to attributes such as speed, contact, power, or even being right/left handed.
For example, if you (personally) do better with lefties, give "Hand" a 1 or 2, and the list will be recalculated.
Or, if you are in a "batting practice" tourney, give a lower weight to "Contact", since you should be able to hit almost every pitch on the screws.
If you are in an ATG style tourney, give a higher weight on "Contact" and "Speed".
Let me know what you think.
Gantry - are you talking straight pitch or ATG?
I'm not sure what I'll do the next time I use Houston. Do you all agree that Denny must go? I guess I can let the Doran, "Ice" Reynolds, Assby combo hit for a game or two and see what happens. I can't do any worse with them, I suffered my only loss with Ho yesterday. I even took out CA with the Cards (this isn't top notch competition though).