Poll
Question:
Should Ron Santo be in the Hall of Fame?
Option 1: Yes
votes: 14
Option 2: No
votes: 15
Should Ron Santo be in the Hall of Fame?
there have been 6 votes.
Justify yo' selves!!!!!
I said my piece in the "Jack Morris" thread.
I voted no because I wanted to piss off Dryden and Ryno.
Quote from: GDavis on 06/29/05, 12:45:37 PM
I voted no because I wanted to piss off Dryden and Ryno.
idiot!
home-oh!
BALL SACK!!!
The real answers in this puhl should be
Yes
No
Yes, but Dryden and Ryno should go fuck themselves anyway
can i just have sex with your aviator?
Is Santo in the Arcade Version of RBI?
I can't answer a puhl without a "yes or no" option.
Santo is in arcade RBI, and he can be yours if you sign up on the ROM-to-cart thread
Quote from: Ryno on 06/29/05, 12:40:16 PM
there have been 6 votes.
Justify yo' selves!!!!!
I said my piece in the "Jack Morris" thread.
Mine too.
I think the HOF should be for the elite. The cream of the crop.
I also don't think several of the third baseman in the hall should not have gotten in.
However, if you are going to use the argument, "Well, Player A and Player B have shittier stats than Ron, and they are in. Then Ron should be in too."
Then fine, you win. Let him in.
This thread should have been started by Ryno in Anything Goes.
Quote from: stockw19 on 06/29/05, 12:57:54 PM
Quote from: Ryno on 06/29/05, 12:40:16 PM
there have been 6 votes.
Justify yo' selves!!!!!
I said my piece in the "Jack Morris" thread.
Mine too.
I think the HOF should be for the elite. The cream of the crop.
I also don't think several of the third baseman in the hall should not have gotten in.
However, if you are going to use the argument, "Well, Player A and Player B have shittier stats than Ron, and they are in. Then Ron should be in too."
Then fine, you win. Let him in.
It isn't a shittier stats argument for Santo, though - he's better than lots and lots of guys in the hall. If you're better than half of the people at your position, that's a problem, as opposed to "He's better than George Kelly". Hell, Tino Martinez is better than George Kelly...
Santo should go into the Hall of Pretty Good.
He was pretty good, but will never get to the Hall of Fame
Quote from: BDawk on 06/29/05, 01:08:11 PM
Santo should go into the Hall of Pretty Good.
He was pretty good, but will never get to the Hall of Fame
Then they need to start removing a lot of pretty good players from the Hall right now, 1st up, Brooks Robinson
That's the thing. You are saying he should be in the hall since he has better stats than many HOFers.
If you gave me a list of the HOFers you think he has better stats than, I would probably think they were not deserving either.
Quote from: stockw19 on 06/29/05, 01:10:50 PM
That's the thing. You are saying he should be in the hall since he has better stats than many HOFers.
If you gave me a list of the HOFers you think he has better stats than, I would probably think they were not deserving either.
That's all well and good, but the standard has been set, he's a middling Hall of Famer, it's night like he'd be one of the worst players in the HOF.
Quote from: stockw19 on 06/29/05, 01:10:50 PM
That's the thing. You are saying he should be in the hall since he has better stats than many HOFers.
If you gave me a list of the HOFers you think he has better stats than, I would probably think they were not deserving either.
Who is the worst player you believe belongs in the hall of fame?
nefi perez
i think you should be able to eliminate people from the hall of fame, unfortunately, since we don't have film of older players it's harder to evaluate their intangibles, or they way they played defense, for example.
Quote from: ultimate7 on 06/29/05, 01:12:29 PM
Quote from: stockw19 on 06/29/05, 01:10:50 PM
That's the thing. You are saying he should be in the hall since he has better stats than many HOFers.
If you gave me a list of the HOFers you think he has better stats than, I would probably think they were not deserving either.
That's all well and good, but the standard has been set, he's a middling Hall of Famer, it's night like he'd be one of the worst players in the HOF.
You hit it on the head. I disagree with the standard, so I probably don't belong in any HOF debates. I just don't think the HOF means a damn thing since it seems they allow anyone in there. All you have to do is play for a good team and be well liked. This seems to be the standard for all bubble HOF'ers.
Quote from: Teddyballgame on 06/29/05, 02:29:47 PM
i think you should be able to eliminate people from the hall of fame, unfortunately, since we don't have film of older players it's harder to evaluate their intangibles, or they way they played defense, for example.
There's a lot of different defensive metrics to use. But what exactly constitutes an "intangible"? If you know how well someone hits, fields and pitches, with the exception of a very few players (Jackie Robinson, Joe Jackson) don't you pretty much know how good they are/were? Is "clubhouse leader" somehow a measure of greatness now?
Quote from: stockw19 on 06/29/05, 02:34:33 PM
Quote from: ultimate7 on 06/29/05, 01:12:29 PM
Quote from: stockw19 on 06/29/05, 01:10:50 PM
That's the thing. You are saying he should be in the hall since he has better stats than many HOFers.
If you gave me a list of the HOFers you think he has better stats than, I would probably think they were not deserving either.
That's all well and good, but the standard has been set, he's a middling Hall of Famer, it's night like he'd be one of the worst players in the HOF.
You hit it on the head. I disagree with the standard, so I probably don't belong in any HOF debates. I just don't think the HOF means a damn thing since it seems they allow anyone in there. All you have to do is play for a good team and be well liked. This seems to be the standard for all bubble HOF'ers.
I ask again: Who is the worst player you believe belongs in the hall of fame?
Quote from: Dryden on 06/29/05, 02:35:26 PM
Quote from: stockw19 on 06/29/05, 02:34:33 PM
Quote from: ultimate7 on 06/29/05, 01:12:29 PM
Quote from: stockw19 on 06/29/05, 01:10:50 PM
That's the thing. You are saying he should be in the hall since he has better stats than many HOFers.
If you gave me a list of the HOFers you think he has better stats than, I would probably think they were not deserving either.
That's all well and good, but the standard has been set, he's a middling Hall of Famer, it's night like he'd be one of the worst players in the HOF.
You hit it on the head. I disagree with the standard, so I probably don't belong in any HOF debates. I just don't think the HOF means a damn thing since it seems they allow anyone in there. All you have to do is play for a good team and be well liked. This seems to be the standard for all bubble HOF'ers.
I ask again: Who is the worst player you believe belongs in the hall of fame?
Who knows? This question could spark an entirely new debate. There are so many people in the hall that I have never even heard of, so I could not possibly make a guess.
If you haven't heard of most of them, how are you in any way qualified to make judgements about who should or should not be in the hall of fame?
How can you comment about the structure of an institution when you admit you don't know very much about it?
Quote from: Dryden on 06/29/05, 02:41:49 PM
If you haven't heard of most of them, how are you in any way qualified to make judgements about who should or should not be in the hall of fame?
How can you comment about the structure of an institution when you admit you don't know very much about it?
IF you said that you knew something about every member of the HOF, you would be lying.
I just think you are asking an impossible question. I would not even be able to come up with who I think the best HOF player is. You would literally be grasping at straws trying to separate thousanths of batting average points, home runs, and defensive ability.
It is hard enough for people to agree on the best RBI player even though we know exactly what all their attributes are (defense aside).
Quote from: stockw19 on 06/29/05, 02:45:53 PM
Quote from: Dryden on 06/29/05, 02:41:49 PM
If you haven't heard of most of them, how are you in any way qualified to make judgements about who should or should not be in the hall of fame?
How can you comment about the structure of an institution when you admit you don't know very much about it?
IF you said that you knew something about every member of the HOF, you would be lying.
I just think you are asking an impossible question. I would not even be able to come up with who I think the best HOF player is. You would literally be grasping at straws trying to separate thousanths of batting average points, home runs, and defensive ability.
It is hard enough for people to agree on the best RBI player even though we know exactly what all their attributes are (defense aside).
I absolutely guarantee you I know every single player, coach, and executive in the HOF. I don't know most of the broadcasters, I'll grant you that.
Best player in the HOF: Babe Ruth. It isn't even a question, it's not even close. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention. It isn't a question of splitting hairs - he's so far above the other greats, it's silly.
Does Dave Parker belong in the Hall of Fame?
Worst player in the HOF: probably George Kelly, though arguments can be made for some other folks as well. Worst person in the HOF: Morgan Bulkeley. He didn't even do the things he's credited for on his plaque - the voters just fucked up.
Quote from: Dryden on 06/29/05, 02:54:40 PM
Worst player in the HOF: probably George Kelly, though arguments can be made for some other folks as well. Worst person in the HOF: Morgan Bulkeley. He didn't even do the things he's credited for on his plaque - the voters just fucked up.
Right, the were trying to vote on having "More Bukkake", but there was some sort of typo...
Quote from: Dryden on 06/29/05, 02:50:24 PM
I absolutely guarantee you I know every single player, coach, and executive in the HOF. I don't know most of the broadcasters, I'll grant you that.
Best player in the HOF: Babe Ruth. It isn't even a question, it's not even close. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention. It isn't a question of splitting hairs - he's so far above the other greats, it's silly.
Ummm Dryden...You, uh, don't get out much, um, do you?
Quote from: Dryden on 06/29/05, 02:50:24 PM
Quote from: stockw19 on 06/29/05, 02:45:53 PM
Quote from: Dryden on 06/29/05, 02:41:49 PM
If you haven't heard of most of them, how are you in any way qualified to make judgements about who should or should not be in the hall of fame?
How can you comment about the structure of an institution when you admit you don't know very much about it?
IF you said that you knew something about every member of the HOF, you would be lying.
I just think you are asking an impossible question. I would not even be able to come up with who I think the best HOF player is. You would literally be grasping at straws trying to separate thousanths of batting average points, home runs, and defensive ability.
It is hard enough for people to agree on the best RBI player even though we know exactly what all their attributes are (defense aside).
I absolutely guarantee you I know every single player, coach, and executive in the HOF. I don't know most of the broadcasters, I'll grant you that.
Best player in the HOF: Babe Ruth. It isn't even a question, it's not even close. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention. It isn't a question of splitting hairs - he's so far above the other greats, it's silly.
If you truly know that much about everyone in the Hall, then maybe you should be an ESPN analyst or something. Even Peter Gammons and Joe Morgan talked about not knowing much about several players in the hall. (Not that I give ESPN analysts any credit)
I do agree with you on the Babe, but there has been several discussions on here in the past saying he is NOT the best ever. Didn't want to go down that road again. In fact I have made several posts explaining why the Babe was far and beyond the best of his time.
Quote from: Superood on 06/29/05, 02:52:57 PM
Does Dave Parker belong in the Hall of Fame?
Depends on your standards for the hall. Is he better than the worst OF in there now? Yes. Is he the best eligible OF who isn't in? No, Indian Bob Johnson and Andre Dawson are better, to name 2.
Quote from: BDawk on 06/29/05, 03:00:48 PM
Quote from: Dryden on 06/29/05, 02:50:24 PM
I absolutely guarantee you I know every single player, coach, and executive in the HOF. I don't know most of the broadcasters, I'll grant you that.
Best player in the HOF: Babe Ruth. It isn't even a question, it's not even close. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention. It isn't a question of splitting hairs - he's so far above the other greats, it's silly.
Ummm Dryden...You, uh, don't get out much, um, do you?
My job has been especially boring lately, what can I tell you?
Besides, didn't you ever read the baseball encyclopedia when you were little? Just me?
Anyone? Bueller?
Most of my love of old-time baseball comes from a childhood spent playing microleague baseball on the computer with friends and having insane drafts to support it.
Quote from: Superood on 06/29/05, 02:52:57 PM
Does Dave Parker belong in the Hall of Fame?
Hell yes.
Also, Babe Ruth is white. I think.
Who was worser? George Kell or Bill Mazeroski?
Mazeroski is worse than Kell, easily. George Kelly is a different player, and is quite a bit worse than Mazeroski. Maz is clearly the best defensive 2B in baseball history, but he couldn't hit. Kelly is a pretty good defensive 1B who couldn't hit, which pretty much makes him Tino Martinez. He had the right friends, though.
Quote from: Dryden on 06/29/05, 03:31:39 PM
He had the right friends, though.
I was friends with him
Bdawk, if you see a guy that looks like this with prostetic legs walking towards you, you might want to run away
Because he'd probably try to kick me in the nuts and might hurt himself.
Ron is a pretty fiesty guy.
Stock - I think Dryden's question (worst player you think belongs in the Hall) has merit. You don't have to go through the rolls and pick one; rather, pick a player you know somewhat who you think roughly meets your bare minimum for qualification. This will give us a better idea of your standards.
I still think Bill Simmons' pyramid is a good idea - Stock's strictness has a place (cutting off who makes which level), and the current permissive standards can still allow more people in.
Veteran's Comittee vote results to be released today. Will the 5th best 3rd basemen in the history of baseball* be voted in?
*As rated in 2003 by baseball historian Bill James
Santos L Halper?
Quote from: BDawk on 02/27/07, 08:34:34 AM
Santos L Halper?
If he can get a credit card, he surely belongs in the hall of fame.
Denied again, by 5 votes. Again fuck the veteran's comittee. I might smash my Mike Schmidt starting lineup figure tonight.
Again tomorrow, another Veteran's committee vote will be announced. Santo's best chance as the somehow changed voting rules a bit. I think he will get in this time
I hope not.
He'll get in this year. The Vet's committee is under pressure to put someone in.
There's no one more deserving than Santo.
I'm hoping for Dick Allen and Santo --- both should have been put in long ago.
Quote from: ultimate7 on 02/27/07, 01:20:31 PM
Denied again, by 5 votes. Again fuck the veteran's comittee. I might smash my Mike Schmidt starting lineup figure tonight.
Mike Schmidt is leaps and bounds better than Ron Santo. my favorite thing that ron santo ever did was end his career as a utility man on the white sox...that and "OHHHH NOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOO" after brant brown dropped that fly ball.
Quote from: Strassy on 12/07/08, 01:50:06 PM
Quote from: ultimate7 on 02/27/07, 01:20:31 PM
Denied again, by 5 votes. Again fuck the veteran's comittee. I might smash my Mike Schmidt starting lineup figure tonight.
Mike Schmidt is leaps and bounds better than Ron Santo. my favorite thing that ron santo ever did was end his career as a utility man on the white sox...that and "OHHHH NOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOO" after brant brown dropped that fly ball.
No question Schmidt was probably the best 3rd baseman ever (at least until ARod), but he is an asshole because he won't vote Santo into the HOF
Quote from: ryno on 12/07/08, 01:30:28 PM
There's no one more deserving than Santo.
You can't possibly actually believe this.
Of those not currently in? He's the 5th best 3rd basemen of all time.
Schmidt, Brooks Robinson, George Brett, Eddie Mathews, Molitor, McGraw, Groh, Ken Boyer....Scott Rolen...
...Robin Ventura?
Vinny Castilla
...Aramis Ramirez?
Quote from: Nacho on 12/07/08, 02:51:13 PM
Quote from: ryno on 12/07/08, 01:30:28 PM
There's no one more deserving than Santo.
You can't possibly actually believe this.
It IS Ryno we are talking about here.
...Corey Koskie...
george arias
Plenty of people -- non of which have the same homerism as I --- believe Santo is a hall of famer.
Bill James is one.
Quote from: ryno on 12/07/08, 06:47:33 PM
Plenty of people -- non of which have the same homerism as I --- believe Santo is a hall of famer.
Bill James is one.
Plenty of people also thought that McCain should be president. They were outvoted.
To be honest, I could go either way. He was a good player, and he's been really good to my family, actually (I'm sure I've told the story plenty of times), and from what my mom's husband says, he really is a super-nice guy. That doesn't mean I think he deserves it. I could care less whether he makes the Hall. One of those borderline guys.
You are the first baseball fan that I know of that is indifferent on a subject such as this.
I think his assholiness towards the media during his playing days hurt him more than anything.
Quote from: Attezz on 12/07/08, 03:59:05 PM
Schmidt, Brooks Robinson, George Brett, Eddie Mathews, Molitor, McGraw, Groh, Ken Boyer....Scott Rolen...
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3753642&name=Neyer_Rob
Neyer's take on the 20 on the ballot
After taking a look at his stats, I'd say Santo deserves to be in. Dick Allen should get some consideration too.
Santo misses again, no one from the post 1943 ballots made it, only Joe Gordon voted in on the pre-1943 writers ballot
Santo gets in the year after he dies.
I just looked up his numbers and I'd say they're pretty good. Borderline HOF guy
That would be true, except his entire career spanned the era which was the biggest pitchers era ever.
From 1964-1967, Santo averaged an OPS+ of 156. That's 4 years where you essentially had Manny Ramirez in the lineup and a gold glove 3rd baseman.
Adjusted OPS+ has him in between Carl Rick Monday and Stan Spence (or Carlos Pena and Scott Rolen if including actives.
That's not exactly HOF material.
Similar batters includes a few HOFers...but, they were catchers:
1. Dale Murphy (875)
2. Ken Boyer (874)
3. Gary Gaetti (873)
4. Yogi Berra (869) *
5. Gary Carter (868) *
6. Johnny Bench (868) *
7. Ruben Sierra (865)
8. Chili Davis (865)
9. Carlton Fisk (863) *
10. Bobby Bonilla (863)
If you let Santo in, it's a slippery slope, next thing you have some guy in Idaho wanting to marry an Alpaca
Next thing you know Kirby Puckett will get in.
Quote from: Attezz on 12/12/08, 09:13:12 AM
If you let Santo in, it's a slippery slope, next thing you have some guy in Idaho wanting to marry an Alpaca
nspoleon dynamite wants to marry tina?
Santo in the HOF.
Quote from: ryno on 12/08/08, 12:17:05 PM
Santo gets in the year after he dies.
winner, fuck the HOF
Quote from: ultimate7 on 12/05/11, 10:48:53 AM
Quote from: ryno on 12/08/08, 12:17:05 PM
Santo gets in the year after he dies.
winner, fuck the HOF
That's the only reason he got in.
Fuck the HOF.
Indeed. Fuck the HOF.
Don't hassle the Hoff.
First pic is Ron Santo's statue outside wrigley. One day when I was walking past, some cards fans were draping a st. Louis red jacket over him and taking pics. One of the barkeeps from across the street went over and stopped them. Pretty cool loyalty.
Second pic is a shoe one of the teachers at my training made for Santo. They don't know if he ever actually wore them. Notice the blue stitching to simulate pinstripes.
Wait, when did you go to Chicago?
In terms of Hall of Fame credentials, I don't think Santo really had a leg to stand on.
(http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/032011/hippo-see-there.jpg)
And somewhere in heaven, Ron Santo is saying,"Awwwwww geez.....OH...OH....OH Boy.......Awwwwwwwwww geez!"
Quote from: fightonusc on 12/06/11, 01:58:56 AM
So I says to the guy, "WRECKED 'em? Damn near KILLED 'em!"
Santo and Scott Rolen have had similar careers.
Quote from: bonny on 12/06/11, 10:20:37 AM
Santo and Scott Rolen have had similar careers.
Does Scott Rolen have diabetes?
Did Rolen play in the biggest pitcher's era since the end of the dead ball?
Was Rolen on my favorite team during my formative years?!?!?!
Does Rolen know Jason?
Quote from: Attezz on 12/08/11, 06:40:18 AM
Was Rolen on my favorite team during my formative years?!?!?!
Nobody here is quite that old are they?
Rolen is putting together a case for HOF, especially at 3B.
Quote from: bonny on 12/08/11, 10:36:19 AM
Rolen is putting together a case for HOF, especially at 3B.
He's a commonoid.
Quote from: Brookensrules! on 12/05/11, 05:35:33 PM
Indeed. Fuck the HOF.
Actually, the HOF is pretty fucking awesome. And Cooperstown and the surrounding area is quite beautiful, especially during the fall foliage time. Quite an enjoyable time and I recommend it to everyone.
Quote from: Mike D. on 12/09/11, 01:43:56 PM
Quote from: Brookensrules! on 12/05/11, 05:35:33 PM
Indeed. Fuck the HOF.
Actually, the HOF is pretty fucking awesome. And Cooperstown and the surrounding area is quite beautiful, especially during the fall foliage time. Quite an enjoyable time and I recommend it to everyone.
Sounds like you want to fuck it, meaning Brookens was right.
Oh, ok. I thought he meant "Fuck the HOF" in a negative way. I'm all for sticking my dick in the HOF (hassel and baseball).
Quote from: bonny on 12/08/11, 10:36:19 AM
Rolen is putting together a case for HOF, especially at 3B.
figured it was a no brainer for him. . ..but what do I know?
Quote from: ryno on 12/10/11, 10:23:34 AM
Quote from: bonny on 12/08/11, 10:36:19 AM
Rolen is putting together a case for HOF, especially at 3B.
figured it was a no brainer for him. . ..but what do I know?
I think he is kind of a victim of his era. Dude is a player.
I'm still a little pissed at the lack of respect for Will Clark. He's a hall of famer.