Ron Santo in the Hall of Fame?

[Dryden]

i think you should be able to eliminate people from the hall of fame, unfortunately, since we don't have film of older players it's harder to evaluate their intangibles, or they way they played defense, for example.

There's a lot of different defensive metrics to use.  But what exactly constitutes an "intangible"?  If you know how well someone hits, fields and pitches, with the exception of a very few players (Jackie Robinson, Joe Jackson) don't you pretty much know how good they are/were?  Is "clubhouse leader" somehow a measure of greatness now?

[Dryden]

That's the thing.  You are saying he should be in the hall since he has better stats than many HOFers.
If you gave me a list of the HOFers you think he has better stats than, I would probably think they were not deserving either.

That's all well and good, but the standard has been set, he's a middling Hall of Famer, it's night like he'd be one of the worst players in the HOF.

You hit it on the head. I disagree with the standard, so I probably don't belong in any HOF debates. I just don't think the HOF means a damn thing since it seems they allow anyone in there. All you have to do is play for a good team and be well liked. This seems to be the standard for all bubble HOF'ers.

I ask again: Who is the worst player you believe belongs in the hall of fame?

[Stock]

That's the thing.  You are saying he should be in the hall since he has better stats than many HOFers.
If you gave me a list of the HOFers you think he has better stats than, I would probably think they were not deserving either.

That's all well and good, but the standard has been set, he's a middling Hall of Famer, it's night like he'd be one of the worst players in the HOF.

You hit it on the head. I disagree with the standard, so I probably don't belong in any HOF debates. I just don't think the HOF means a damn thing since it seems they allow anyone in there. All you have to do is play for a good team and be well liked. This seems to be the standard for all bubble HOF'ers.

I ask again: Who is the worst player you believe belongs in the hall of fame?

Who knows?  This question could spark an entirely new debate.  There are so many people in the hall that I have never even heard of, so I could not possibly make a guess.

[Dryden]

If you haven't heard of most of them, how are you in any way qualified to make judgements about who should or should not be in the hall of fame?

How can you comment about the structure of an institution when you admit you don't know very much about it?

[Stock]

If you haven't heard of most of them, how are you in any way qualified to make judgements about who should or should not be in the hall of fame?

How can you comment about the structure of an institution when you admit you don't know very much about it?

IF you said that you knew something about every member of the HOF, you would be lying.
I just think you are asking an impossible question.  I would not even be able to come up with who I think the best HOF player is.  You would literally be grasping at straws trying to separate thousanths of batting average points, home runs, and defensive ability.
It is hard enough for people to agree on the best RBI player even though we know exactly what all their attributes are (defense aside).

[Dryden]

If you haven't heard of most of them, how are you in any way qualified to make judgements about who should or should not be in the hall of fame?

How can you comment about the structure of an institution when you admit you don't know very much about it?

IF you said that you knew something about every member of the HOF, you would be lying.
I just think you are asking an impossible question. I would not even be able to come up with who I think the best HOF player is. You would literally be grasping at straws trying to separate thousanths of batting average points, home runs, and defensive ability.
It is hard enough for people to agree on the best RBI player even though we know exactly what all their attributes are (defense aside).

I absolutely guarantee you I know every single player, coach, and executive in the HOF.  I don't know most of the broadcasters, I'll grant you that.

Best player in the HOF:  Babe Ruth.  It isn't even a question, it's not even close.  If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention.  It isn't a question of splitting hairs - he's so far above the other greats, it's silly.

[Superood]

Does Dave Parker belong in the Hall of Fame?

[Dryden]

Worst player in the HOF: probably George Kelly, though arguments can be made for some other folks as well.  Worst person in the HOF: Morgan Bulkeley.  He didn't even do the things he's credited for on his plaque - the voters just fucked up.

[fightonusc]

Worst player in the HOF: probably George Kelly, though arguments can be made for some other folks as well. Worst person in the HOF: Morgan Bulkeley. He didn't even do the things he's credited for on his plaque - the voters just fucked up.

Right, the were trying to vote on having "More Bukkake", but there was some sort of typo...

[BDawk]

I absolutely guarantee you I know every single player, coach, and executive in the HOF.  I don't know most of the broadcasters, I'll grant you that.

Best player in the HOF:  Babe Ruth.  It isn't even a question, it's not even close.  If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention.  It isn't a question of splitting hairs - he's so far above the other greats, it's silly.

Ummm Dryden...You, uh, don't get out much, um, do you?

[Stock]

If you haven't heard of most of them, how are you in any way qualified to make judgements about who should or should not be in the hall of fame?

How can you comment about the structure of an institution when you admit you don't know very much about it?

IF you said that you knew something about every member of the HOF, you would be lying.
I just think you are asking an impossible question. I would not even be able to come up with who I think the best HOF player is. You would literally be grasping at straws trying to separate thousanths of batting average points, home runs, and defensive ability.
It is hard enough for people to agree on the best RBI player even though we know exactly what all their attributes are (defense aside).

I absolutely guarantee you I know every single player, coach, and executive in the HOF.  I don't know most of the broadcasters, I'll grant you that.

Best player in the HOF:  Babe Ruth.  It isn't even a question, it's not even close.  If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention.  It isn't a question of splitting hairs - he's so far above the other greats, it's silly.

If you truly know that much about everyone in the Hall, then maybe you should be an ESPN analyst or something.  Even Peter Gammons and Joe Morgan talked about not knowing much about several players in the hall.  (Not that I give ESPN analysts any credit)

I do agree with you on the Babe, but there has been several discussions on here in the past saying he is NOT the best ever.  Didn't want to go down that road again.  In fact I have made several posts explaining why the Babe was far and beyond the best of his time.

[Dryden]

Does Dave Parker belong in the Hall of Fame?

Depends on your standards for the hall.  Is he better than the worst OF in there now?  Yes.  Is he the best eligible OF who isn't in?  No, Indian Bob Johnson and Andre Dawson are better, to name 2.

[Dryden]

I absolutely guarantee you I know every single player, coach, and executive in the HOF.  I don't know most of the broadcasters, I'll grant you that.

Best player in the HOF:  Babe Ruth.  It isn't even a question, it's not even close.  If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention.  It isn't a question of splitting hairs - he's so far above the other greats, it's silly.

Ummm Dryden...You, uh, don't get out much, um, do you?

My job has been especially boring lately, what can I tell you?

[Dryden]

Besides, didn't you ever read the baseball encyclopedia when you were little?  Just me?

Anyone?  Bueller?

Most of my love of old-time baseball comes from a childhood spent playing microleague baseball on the computer with friends and having insane drafts to support it.

[RedBarron]

Does Dave Parker belong in the Hall of Fame?

Hell yes.

[RedBarron]

Also, Babe Ruth is white.  I think.


Who was worser?  George Kell or Bill Mazeroski?

[Dryden]

Mazeroski is worse than Kell, easily.  George Kelly is a different player, and is quite a bit worse than Mazeroski.  Maz is clearly the best defensive 2B in baseball history, but he couldn't hit.  Kelly is a pretty good defensive 1B who couldn't hit, which pretty much makes him Tino Martinez.  He had the right friends, though.

[BDawk]

He had the right friends, though.

I was friends with him

[Dryden]

He had the right friends, though.

I was friends with him

Seriously?

[ultimate7]

Bdawk, if you see a guy that looks like this with prostetic legs walking towards you, you might want to run away