Why newer baseball games are still garbage compared to RBI

[capt_taco]

I'm starting a list. Anyone else, feel free to add on...

1) Computer assistance. Yeah, I know it's impossible to control every player at once on every play, but some of the games now will literally catch the ball for you; you hardly have to do anything. Garbage.

2) Automatic sequences. When you hit a home run in most of these new games, ther's no doubt; the controls are simply locked while you watch a nice long dinger sail out of the park from a clever camera angle. I guess this is OK if you like to masturbate to the graphics, but it leaves absolutely NO suspense. Same for certain other occurances that would be very interesting plays otherwise.

3) Friggin' baserunning. Simply put: Very few actual decisions to make that will affect the outcome of the play much, except for the really really stupid ones. Might as well have the computer do all the running for you.

4) THERE IS NO FOUR.

5) Weak outs. When someone's out, they'll calmly jog off the field, and maybe a very realistic voice will say "out" softly. Nothing like the bone-shaking chirp and a guy running away in tears in RBI.

6) Predictable pitching. Almost every starting pitcher ALWAYS gets tired after 5-6 innings, and then you have to use EXACTLY two relievers. And when a pitcher gets tired, they make it WAY too obvious when you need to take him out. Even a 6-year-old wit the IQ of a tuna casserole could figure it out with no problem. Except for John Rocker in MLB All-Stars 2003, who routinely threw complete games, but that's a side point.

7) Giambi. There is nothing like that backstabbing, traitor sonofabitch in RBI.

Too much reality. Every play is way too friggin' serious. It's almost impossible to make a truly idiotic play on purpose, even for comic value. After the play, you can never do anything. It even cuts back to the batting screen while the ball is still moving in certain games. Hitting a batter on purpose is even hard. And you'll never, EVER hit a monster 700-foot home run like you can with McGwire or Jackson.

9) The computer never walks you, and keeps inane stats for games between other teams.

10) The cheese stands alone.

Keep it going, guys...

[ultimate7]

Good post Taco, I've really only tried to play one newer Baseball game a couple years ago on PlayStation, I remember it fitting a lot of your descriptions and me not ever wanting to play it again.

[BeefMaster]

Your post is pretty much dead on.  However, I have MVP 2003 on the computer, and it's the first "realistic" baseball game I've played and enjoyed.  I think RBI has a greater allure largely because you can just pick it up and play it, yet it still requires skill.  I don't want to spend 20 minutes reading through the manual trying to figure out what button to use to slide (MVP actually has separate headfirst and feetfirst slide buttons).  In RBI, I generally prefer to pitch it where it can be hit so I can field, but the pitcher-batter duel in MVP is really impressive.  It's welcome change after the debacle that was the Triple Play series.

[Dryden]

I think there's a fundamental fact that makes baseball very difficult to try to do well on a computer.  When real players play, they have different skill levels - clearly, Barry Bonds is a better hitter than Neifi Perez.  But when controlled by a person, how does this translate?

Bonds' superior strike zone recognition is good for nothing if the player swings at everything.  If you have to decide where to swing the bat, a player's ability to make contact is somewhat pointless.  The only factors that really continue to matter are how hard someone hits the ball, what kind of hit it is (ground, fly, line drive) and for pitching, how hard they throw it and how much it moves.

Ironically, even with RBI's simplicity, it captured all of these elements from the beginning (maybe not the ground/fly thing).  What's the point of looking like Barry Bonds, swinging like Barry Bonds, if you miss every damn pitch?  What's the point of using Adam Dunn if you hit everything and it goes for a home run?

The only baseball games worth a damn are, IMHO, RBI and the newest sim games, like Out Of The Park, which make it interesting to work with real players.

All other baseball games are eye candy, but add nothing in terms of gameplay.

[Wilfong]

I've only played 2 baseball games in the last decade. RBI and Baseball Simulator. There's no need for anything else.
Capt - There are two things I'd add to your list. 1 - memorable players. There are very few players that can live up to the standards set by your Teufels, Wilfongs and Lopes. and 2 - Glitches. Who doesn't love seeing a HR sail through the wall or a fair HR being called foul?

[BeefMaster]

Funny, Wilfong - I've been playing a lot of Baseball Simulator lately as well.  Controlling a normal team in a league full of ultra teams can provide a decent challenge when you're without a human opponent (as I am).  I'd add the original Griffey and RBI's NES sequels as fun games as well, although I may be in the minority with those.  Back in the day, I enjoyed playing Bases Loaded 3, but it's lost a lot of the allure for me.

Dryden, your post made me think of a good addition to a modern baseball game - for hitters more skilled at recognizing the strike zone, the ball should slow down on its way to the plate.  This would give someone controlling Bonds a better chance to see the pitch and react to it correctly.

[_13eoWuLF__]

One thing I think totally blows all the new games for me is teh interaction between hitter and batter. I mean look at most of the new games trying to make it realistic giving you a strike zone and trying to make a hitter have some choices that just make the whole process very forced and corny. The whole thing with me is when I play a cruve game I know it is not for real, but in the sense that theres a ptcher hitter conflict it is more realistic then any of the newer games. Good topic because I like alot of you out there keep waiting for years for there to be a game that would be an answer to rbi. well that game just never came and then I just gave up on baseball games all together- err until I seen this site that is.  

[fknmclane]

It boils down to simplicity like Beefer said.  I hate having to memorize ten different buttons.  Two different slides?  Fuck that!  My guys know when to slide in RBI.
I've played two baseball games I've liked:  RBI and Ken Griffey Jr Baseball (N64 - call me Junior.)

[Wilfong]

BM, I'm glad to see there's another simulator fan out there. Have you played it for super nintendo? The one thing it has on RBI is the create a team option, I can't get enough of that. The gameplay is very similar to RBI as well, I'm a fan. I have a few human opponents, so I don't have to play against the ultra teams often, but human v human ultra is fun with the limited ultra points. You definitely have to pick the right weapons to use...sorry this is the RBI page, forgive me for devoting that much space to a non RBI baseball game.

[Mike D.]

I am the cheese.

[BeefMaster]

I tried out the Super NES version of Baseball Simulator on an emulator, and I was unimpressed.  By upping the graphics, the gameplay got messed with a bit, and I had a hard time hitting very well.  The only baseball game I've ever played and enjoyed on a non-NES console is the original Griffey Baseball.  There were actually RBI sequels made for the Genesis and SNES; I tried RBI '94 (SNES) and RBI 4 (Genesis) on emulators, and they were horrendous.

I did a bit of stuff with the team creation, but I've been playing with original teams lately; they're a little more balanced, which makes them harder to play with (if you want to create a really good team, you can zero out the stats for 2 starting pitchers and all but 1 or 2 bench players, because they'll never play).

[ultimate7]

One thing I think totally blows all the new games for me is teh interaction between hitter and batter. I mean look at most of the new games trying to make it realistic giving you a strike zone and trying to make a hitter have some choices that just make the whole process very forced and corny. The whole thing with me is when I play a cruve game I know it is not for real, but in the sense that theres a ptcher hitter conflict it is more realistic then any of the newer games. Good topic because I like alot of you out there keep waiting for years for there to be a game that would be an answer to rbi. well that game just never came and then I just gave up on baseball games all together- err until I seen this site that is.  

I think this post sums up why RBI is so great.  Especially curve style, you have great batter/pitcher confict while not like real hitting and pitching the conflict is there.  Batter trying to guess pitch location and speed and the pitcher trying to fool the batter.

[Dryden]

One thing I think totally blows all the new games for me is teh interaction between hitter and batter. I mean look at most of the new games trying to make it realistic giving you a strike zone and trying to make a hitter have some choices that just make the whole process very forced and corny. The whole thing with me is when I play a cruve game I know it is not for real, but in the sense that theres a ptcher hitter conflict it is more realistic then any of the newer games. Good topic because I like alot of you out there keep waiting for years for there to be a game that would be an answer to rbi. well that game just never came and then I just gave up on baseball games all together- err until I seen this site that is.  

I think this post sums up why RBI is so great.  Especially curve style, you have great batter/pitcher confict while not like real hitting and pitching the conflict is there.  Batter trying to guess pitch location and speed and the pitcher trying to fool the batter.

This is also why it seems better to play with the sound off, to me - the batter then requires an element of pitch recognition, rather than just listening and deciding that it's a fastball or a sinker...

[malnuboy]

somewhat related to this topic is that there has not been a good hockey game since NHL 94 for genesis, everything about that game kicked ass

[Dryden]

Actually, the newer NHL games (200x) are pretty damn good.   I'd say they do a much better job at actually feeling like hockey.