Hou underrated, Minn overrated

[Gantry]

If Lopes wasn't on Houston he probably wouldn't get as much love.  But that fucker does perform for me, and it's always fun to play with superfast guys.  But we should be brought back to earth, thanks GreatScott...

[Big Apple RBI Champ]

I've been into right-handed power pitching lately.

Nails, we don't need to hear about your fetishes.

Re: Hatcher- If I am playing against someone that doesn't know the "trick" to throwing out basestealers then I leave Hatcher.  If they can throw out runners, then I get him out of there.

Re: Lopes- I'll give him rimjobs until the day I die.  I am suspicious of the accuracy of the power numbers, and the pinch hit boost number (plus 84).  Lopes rips it every time I use him.  Five tools.

Re: beaning guys- a hitter can get out of the way by "cheating" back in the box, but if a guy does that, then i'll hit the outside corner with a strike.  he won't cheat after that because he has to protect the plate.

[ultimate7]

I always PH Lopes for Garvey on the Arcade version

[ericdavisfan]

I just got a Dave Lopes autographed card out of a pack around Christmas.   I'll try to find a pic online, since I don't have a scanner.

I usually sub Lopes for Doran, and Thon for Ashby and leave the other two to sub in a power situation, or for a pitcher.

I'm going to try the Lopes for Hatcher switch this weekend out of respect for all who have posted in its defense


Here is a pic of the Lopes card I got.  Obviously, he's the guy that looks like Cheech Marin

[JoeDirt]

I don't think getting out of the way of a bean ball requires the batter to be all the way in the back corner of the box...especially after the first inning of the pitcher.  I think it's not terribly difficult to get out of the way of a beaning, actually.

[Big Apple RBI Champ]

I agree it is fairly easy to get out of the way with most pitchers, but you do have to cheat somewhat, so the pitcher can catch the outside corner on 1-0, and you can at least make the guy think about it, and perhaps even get him to swing at a bad pitch on 1-1 to make it 1-2, and then you can go after him instead of walking him.

With a huge curveball artist like Bertus or Tutski, I would guess you can't avoid a beanball until the 4th or 5th inning.

[Nails]

Re: Lopes- I'll give him rimjobs until the day I die. I am suspicious of the accuracy of the power numbers, and the pinch hit boost number (plus 84). Lopes rips it every time I use him. Five tools.

Damn, talk about fetishes   

The 64 power boost from 795 puts him up to 859 (1st pinch hit only).  That gives him more power than the likes of Alan Trammell, Matt Nokes, Don Mattingly, Al Pedrique... to name a few.

[nightwulf]

Re: Lopes- I'll give him rimjobs until the day I die.  I am suspicious of the accuracy of the power numbers, and the pinch hit boost number (plus 84).  Lopes rips it every time I use him.  Five tools.

Yes, be very suspicious of something you can read yourself with a hex editor and a calculator. I'd quote lines of code to show the pinch hitter first-AB bonus, but I'd have to explain assembler. Then you'd be suspicious of my explanation.

Nightwulf

[Nails]

I'm going to try the Lopes for Hatcher switch this weekend out of respect for all who have posted in its defense

I don't think you'll be disappointed, especially if you connect well with that first at bat.

[Burnzky]

Ashby sucks, alwasy sub him and his clone Hashby.  They dont deserve to live.

[Big Apple RBI Champ]

Bump.  This was a pretty good discussion about Houston.

[TbT]

interesting thread.  i believe big apples problem was he wasnt that educated on the players abilities.  I think MIN is better by quite a bit.  not a complete landslide or anything but desively better.  MIN has some holes for sure, but gaetti thru Brunansky is a fairly solid 4 hitters.  hell, Min almost reminds me of SF in that decent, but not elite power line-up.  laudner also changes the game a little cause you almost have to just pitch around him, and sometimes put him on base. 

I'm not sold on lopes power cause with the bonus hes not that great. if i really wanna utilize lopes i'll bat him 3rd for Walling.  giving you some great speed off the top 3.  thats the best line-up i believe that HOU can assemble.  Gives you a fighting chance to put a man on and move him around.     

[BeefMaster]

I particularly enjoy nightwulf's responses to people who question the accuracy of the ratings.

[TβG]

I particularly enjoy nightwulf.

[TbT]

another glaring issue i see with this debate is that i really like at least 1 lefty on the staff(and i assume most other do as well).  without this i think it cements HOU as worse team compared to MIN. 

[JoeDirt]

I cannot and will not accept that any reasonably good RBI player can think that Ho is better (or even close) to any other team in the game.  Period. 

[ultimate7]

I could accept if they think they are close to STL, but no other team, they are not close to Minn.  If 2 even players using Minn and Hou, Minn should win at least 90% of the time

[Big Hath]

I could accept if they think they are close to STL, but no other team, they are not close to Minn.  If 2 even players using Minn and Hou, Minn should win at least 90% of the time

sounds like you found the next watch league idea

[Gantry]

JoeDirt at the previous COTUT was in a marathon game against Minnesota, definitely went extra innings.  I can't remember who he playing with but he basically walked Bruno & Hrbek everytime to get to Gagne.  It worked like a charm (though I think Joe lost this game, but it was on a fielding mistake and not a strategy issue) and that lack of a quality 6 hitter really kills Minnesota...

Though with much more experience in curve (you know, those 12 games that makes me an expert) I have to say that Houston is NOWHERE NEAR the level of Minnesota.  Even with a quality two starters, Houston's hitting just kills them.  You can throw strikes to them all day with little repercussion, and that saves your pitching and keeps runs off the table.

Also, Dave Smith is absolutely terrible.  Good lord does he suck - I almost cost myself a game out of ignorance because I put him in and pretty much couldn't throw a ball based on my mound location.  Easily the worst pitcher out of the Mn/Ho stable...