Bush League or Acceptable??

[Ryno23]

Ah fuck it.  I'm too lazy to look it up.  You bring up little league baseball--the rules I'm quoting were the rules we used when I coached an 8th grade league.  I too, assume they'd be the same in the majors--but who knows.

You're afraid to admit that dumb hick like me knows something you don't (other than how to make moonshine and fuck my cousin / sister).

[Stock]

Still pretty sure it applies to MLB too.  I will try to look it up when I get home.

Personally, I think this is a stupid rule in baseball since it is subjective.  I have seen this called in the Majors when it probably should not have been called and vice-versa.
Also, I recall a play made by Greg Maddux.  Runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs.  The pitcher bunts.  The ball is popped up toward the pitchers mound.  Maddux could have easily caught this, but instead he lets it drop in front of him and then starts the 1 - 5 - 4 double play.  I don't recall anyone saying this was a cheap play.  Infact, I remember the anouncers mentioning how heads up this was on Maddux's part.  And then followed by some other bullshit like "that is why he is an X-time gold glover, yada yada".

[Ryno23]

Still pretty sure it applies to MLB too.  I will try to look it up when I get home.

Personally, I think this is a stupid rule in baseball since it is subjective.  I have seen this called in the Majors when it probably should not have been called and vice-versa.
Also, I recall a play made by Greg Maddux.  Runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs.  The pitcher bunts.  The ball is popped up toward the pitchers mound.  Maddux could have easily caught this, but instead he lets it drop in front of him and then starts the 1 - 5 - 4 double play.  I don't recall anyone saying this was a cheap play.  Infact, I remember the anouncers mentioning how heads up this was on Maddux's part.  And then followed by some other bullshit like "that is why he is an X-time gold glover, yada yada".

Mad Dog knew the rules.  A bunt is not a fly ball. 


In 1997 the Cubs were playing the Giants.  Giants had runners on 1st and 2nd when the batter hit's a pop up to deep short / short LF. . . . . Dunston (with his back to the OF) charges out to make the play.   The ump calls IF fly.  Dunston ends up not catching the ball in the air, thus confusing the runners (completely on accident).  The runners fuck up and get off base, Dunston fires to the IF and next thing you know, there's a triple play.

Needless to say the Giants Manager was not too happy.  That play got into the phantom zone. . . . is it in the OF or the IF???   The ump said that since the IF had his back to the OF, then it's an IF fly. . . . . . . .

[Stock]

Mad Dog knew the rules.  A bunt is not a fly ball. 

So, what if it were a check swing, where the ball took the exact same arc?  And what if it were quick enough where the ump did not make the call?
Would this still have been a bitch play.

[BeefMaster]

From the official MLB rules glossary:
"An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out."

So just a runner at first does not trigger the infield fly rule.  However, it may trigger rule 6.05L:
A batter is out when: ... (l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases; APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.

It appears, though, that an RBI-style intentional drop would not trigger this rule, because the ball would drop untouched, as in the approved ruling.  Bottom line, it appears that the intentional miss with a runner at first is not a breach of the rules.

In your Maddux example, it was a bunt, which is explicitly mentioned in the definition of infield fly as an exclusion to the rule.

[Ryno23]

Mad Dog knew the rules.  A bunt is not a fly ball. 

So, what if it were a check swing, where the ball took the exact same arc?  And what if it were quick enough where the ump did not make the call?
Would this still have been a bitch play.

check swing is a swing --- IF fly rule in effect.


This is all speculation on my part, of course.

My thinking is that with a bunt, you are letting the world know that you intend on putting the ball on the ground.  I doubt there's ever been a bunter that wanted to pop up a bunt.

Surely to God there is a rules expert here in Dee Nee land!

[BeefMaster]

That play got into the phantom zone. . . . is it in the OF or the IF?Huh??   The ump said that since the IF had his back to the OF, then it's an IF fly. . . . . . . .

That's how I'd make the ruling, too - it at least appears to the ump that the infielder will make the play "with ordinary effort".

[Ryno23]

From the official MLB rules glossary:
"An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out."

So just a runner at first does not trigger the infield fly rule.  However, it may trigger rule 6.05L:
A batter is out when: ... (l) An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases; APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.

It appears, though, that an RBI-style intentional drop would not trigger this rule, because the ball would drop untouched, as in the approved ruling.  Bottom line, it appears that the intentional miss with a runner at first is not a breach of the rules.

In your Maddux example, it was a bunt, which is explicitly mentioned in the definition of infield fly as an exclusion to the rule.

Today I feel somewhat intelligent.. . . . as opposed to most days when I know i'm a complete dufus.

[Stock]

Thanks for looking it up!

So from what I can see, when I play RBI, I will do what I damn well please until the ump calls the runner out on an ifield fly.  If he does not call the runner out, then he must have used his judgement and decided it could not have been caught using "ordinary effort".

[Ryno23]

Thanks for looking it up!

So from what I can see, when I play RBI, I will do what I damn well please until the ump calls the runner out on an ifield fly.  If he does not call the runner out, then he must have used his judgement and decided it could not have been caught using "ordinary effort".

Nightwuld should program BeefMaster into RBI as an umpire.

This should be easy.

[Stock]

Just not sure why a player should get rewarded by hitting a weak IF pop-up.  When I played ball, I got bitched at a lot more for hitting a weak pop up than for a hard hit grounder.

I say let the guy with the weak pop up get burned just as badly as the guy who hits a hard grounder to the shortstop.  The RBI MIB let it slide, and I like it!

[Ryno23]

Just not sure why a player should get rewarded by hitting a weak IF pop-up.  When I played ball, I got bitched at a lot more for hitting a weak pop up than for a hard hit grounder.

I say let the guy with the weak pop up get burned just as badly as the guy who hits a hard grounder to the shortstop.  The RBI MIB let it slide, and I like it!

The voice of the people says otherwise.

The people rule, dawg!

[BeeJay]

I think I voted bush league, but that doesn't mean I don't do it.  I pull out that move about every other time it happens because it keeps the other player on his toes and gets him annoyed.  I'm also a cheap guy, like Troy from the Goonies.

[Stock]

Same strategy I use.  I, however, have never purposely done this in Online Play. The small amount of lag in the fielding can be enough to really screw you over if you don't time the drop perfectly.

[BeeJay]

The few times I've played online I never try anything funny, mainly since the lag's such a bitch and some people have shitty/no controllers.  If I see the other guy's having trouble, I'll stop at second when I could take third, or I'll let a guy go back to a base instead of running him down.

[Ryno23]

Same strategy I use.  I, however, have never purposely done this in Online Play. The small amount of lag in the fielding can be enough to really screw you over if you don't time the drop perfectly.

But would you use an enhanced version of Bob Brenly?

[Stock]

Of course not.  No, wait...... 

[Big Apple RBI Champ]

Yeah yeah...Smith, then--biotch!

But you get the point. That is clearly illegal in "real" baseball, yet generally accepted in RBI.

I'm pretty sure the IF fly rule only applies with runners at first and second or the bases loaded. I think that'd be legal in regular baseball.

I am 100% positive you are wrong...it's in effect with a man on 1st and less than 2 outs, too.

Joe Dirt is wrong here- infield fly rule applies only 1st and 2nd or bases loaded.  It is perfectly fair to drop ball to throw out faster runner at 2nd, in fact I have none other than Alan Trammel actually do it in real baseball.  (Weak pop to deep short, he let it drop and threw the guy out at 2nd base).

RBI should be played "as is" other than infield fly rule and throwing errors. (outfielder throws it past a stationary first or third baseman to the backstop- runners should not be able to run)

[Stock]

RBI should be played "as is" other than infield fly rule and throwing errors. (outfielder throws it past a stationary first or third baseman to the backstop- runners should not be able to run)

disagree w/ both.  It is too subjective to say if the "drop" was done intentional or not.  I have for one let a ball drop in front of me countless times by accident.  Read my other posts to this thread for more of my feedback on this.
The ball thrown past a stationary catcher (for example) can easily be prevented by hitting your cutoff men.  If you are making a very far desperation throw, you are leaving it to chance that the ball may not be throw perfectly online.

[fknmclane]

Bush league no matter how you try and justify it, no matter what situation.  Dropping a ball on purpose is for weenies.  That's all I'm gonna say on the subject.

Joe, I would expect nothing less from you in the tourney.