Best pitcher in RBI, period (NES)

[Nacho]

4) He's lefty--meaning more batters have mismatch than don't.

Do you find righties to have the advantage against right-handed pitchers?  I haven't noticed this.

[JoeDirt]

#1) This doesn't mean much because his curve is still slower than some other's curve, so you never have to throw fast ball with them

Untrue (see below)...unless you're talking about guys with shitty curves--in which case this is a retarded argument.

#2) Other pitchers have enough movement (both ways) some even have more

Again, untrue (see below).  Tudor's movement (both ways) is about as good as it gets.

#3) Also true with others that have enough movement

Not a knock against Tudor in any way.  But is still a plus for Tudor in comparing all SPs without good curve ability (and remember, this puhl calls for a comparison btwn all SPs).

#4) True, he is one of the top 2 lefties, and if you are facing a RH dominated Batting order, this may be a big enough advantage.

A very misleading statement.  No SP can have the mismatch advantage for both R and L dominated line ups; since most batters in the game are R, the advantage only goes to L SPs in this one specific category.


                   curve L       curve R          curve speed
Tudor                7             11                        180
Krukow           12               7                        160
Reuschel         10               9                        165
Blyleven          10               6                        165
Scott                 7               4                        170
Alexander        11              5                        172
Fernando        12               8                        166

So statistically and in all other ways, Tudor has about as good as a curve ball as anybody.  Throw in the fact that he's lefty, and there's one huge advantage over most on the list.  Throw in the fact that his curve ball is significantly faster than everybody on the list, and you have a great pitcher in Tudor.

Plus what mclane said..

Let's give credit where credit is due! 

[ultimate7]

OK I'll admit, I didn't realize that Tudor's curve was that fast, and I think we've given Mcclane enough credit already, but he did make a good point.

[Stock]

Can someone explain why a lefty pitcher has an advantage over a righty batter?

I see "mclane's" point, but I think this is just a preference thing.  I would prefer a good curve ball pitcher to have a speed in the 165-170 range (so you get even more curve on the ball-Nando).  I also think having a good sinker is key (Tudor's sucks).  Although, I may only throw 2-4 sinkers in a game with a starter, you want them to be good enough for a 2-strike count on a good hitter.  I also think much more credit needs to be given to stamina.

In conclusion, I think everyone makes good points, and most likely different styles of pitch-play just prefer different pitchers.
It is probably safe to say that I would do better with Nolan than Tudor against any of you, where the Tudor fans would do much better with Tudor vs me than using Nolan. 

Great debate!!

[BeefMaster]

Can someone explain why a lefty pitcher has an advantage over a righty batter?

JoeDirt's pitching style (which I'd guess is the predominant style used in the COTUT and similar tourneys) relies on putting nearly every pitch just off the outside corner.  With an opposite-handed pitcher, you can then sometimes curve the pitch in to clip the corner for a strike, leaving the batter basically playing a guessing game, never knowing when a pitch will be hittable or not.

Pitches off the inside corner aren't unhittable like outside ones are, and pitchers generally don't have very good reverse curve (like a screwball), so this strategy isn't as effective if the pitcher and batter use the same hand.

[Stock]

Good point.  That is how I always pitch with Nando.

[Briznock]

Listen, how about decide on who is the best by how well they play, and not there god damn ratings.  Im sick of someone telling me Tudor sucks because his ratings are bad.  Blow me.  Its not about what his fastball or curve rating is.  Its about how bad you would all look against me if I were using Tudor against you.  So how about we dont put anymore rating numbers in this thread and talk about how awesome the pitchers actually pitch.  That being said.....

John Tudor is still the nastiest pitcher in the game.

[JoeDirt]

Exactly, Beef.  Plus, if you miss on the outside, it's just a ball.  If you miss on the inside, it's very possible a launch.

As for Tudor's knuckle sucking, stock--it isn't much for dropping, but it acts as a great change up for Tudor.  Used in that manner, it's highly effective (thrown very sparingly, much as you do a dropping knuckle).

I reread McLane's points--he really is a genius.

[JoeDirt]

Listen, how about decide on who is the best by how well they play, and not there god damn ratings. Im sick of someone telling me Tudor sucks because his ratings are bad.

You didn't read my counter points, did you?  The ratings support Tudor as a top pitcher in the game.  I agree with you that the ratings aren't by any means an end-all, but they do help quanitfy talent.  However, I tend to fall in line more with your thought than those who are militant rating evaluators (aka, stock--not that there's anything wrong with that)...

Blow me.

For less than a million dollars, there are several here who would apparently oblige.


Briznock--you should know that even though you didn't "come through," I still regard that page that you received to be among the best pages I've ever heard of...

[Stock]

As for Tudor's knuckle sucking, stock--it isn't much for dropping, but it acts as a great change up for Tudor.  Used in that manner, it's highly effective (thrown very sparingly, much as you do a dropping knuckle).

The "drop" on Tudor's knuckle is not why I think his knuckle sucks (although it IS worse than I initially thought).  The reason is that it is SO slow, that it is not even an effective changeup.  It can easily be recognized and layed off, or can easily wait back and jack it.

Listen, how about decide on who is the best by how well they play, and not there god damn ratings. Im sick of someone telling me Tudor sucks because his ratings are bad. Blow me. Its not about what his fastball or curve rating is. Its about how bad you would all look against me if I were using Tudor against you. So how about we dont put anymore rating numbers in this thread and talk about how awesome the pitchers actually pitch. That being said.....

John Tudor is still the nastiest pitcher in the game.

The reason I lean more toward numbers, is because they are the one thing that is not left to opinion.  They do not lie.  A pitcher with a curve rating of 12 WILL have a better curve than a pitcher with a curve rating of 10.  A pitcher with a knuckle rating of 14 WILL drop more on the plate than a pitcher with a ranking of 2.

I think I agree with with what you are saying above (in blue), but I have already said that.
I think what you meant to say, was if you were to play 2 games against me using Tudor in one and Ryan in the other, that you would do better against me using Tudor.  That is fine, and I agree that different people's styles gravitate toward different pitcher attributes (WHICH ALL COME DOWN TO THE NUMBERS).
In contrast, I would do much better against you using Ryan rather than Tudor against you.  You have to keep things relative.  JoeD could probably kill me in ATG using Hurst.  This does not mean that Hurst is better than whatever pitcher I use.

[JoeDirt]

That is fine, and I agree that different people's styles gravitate toward different pitcher attributes (WHICH ALL COME DOWN TO THE NUMBERS).

This gets a little dicey when you factor in that there are two ratings that we do not know how they affect the pitcher's ability...

[Stock]

That is fine, and I agree that different people's styles gravitate toward different pitcher attributes (WHICH ALL COME DOWN TO THE NUMBERS).

This gets a little dicey when you factor in that there are two ratings that we do not know how they affect the pitcher's ability...

TRUE.  Get on this shit Nightwulf!!
I think we (Nightwulf) do know for sure though that this has no impact on human players--just on computer players.

[JoeDirt]

Also 'wulf--how exactly does a pitcher get worse once his stamina rating is used up?

[ultimate7]

Also 'wulf--how exactly does a pitcher get worse once his stamina rating is used up?

This is explained in a thread somewhere, he basically loses some points of curve and speed with each pitch one his stamina reaches 0.

Also I'm fairly sure that Nightwulf is fairly certain that the UNKOWNS are only used for CPU pitching

[Stock]

Also 'wulf--how exactly does a pitcher get worse once his stamina rating is used up?

This is explained in a thread somewhere...

Link?

[Briznock]

Briznock--you should know that even though you didn't "come through," I still regard that page that you received to be among the best pages I've ever heard of...

??  What do you speak of?

[JoeDirt]

I received a text message from this girl tonight while at work......

this was her text word for word....

"Nintendo, your cock, my mouth, video camera, (other girls name)..... tomorrow night"

I just came.

[Briznock]

AHHHHHH.  I remember now.  I am a little upset it didnt happen that night.  I failed you all.  I wish i would have saved the message and found a way to post if for you all.  I may give that another push this summer.  I still have a couple slutty girls that would probably do that for me.  No promises this time though.

[MR RBI]

Doc Gooden

[JoeDirt]

Doc Gooden is a slutty girl?