2005 ROM ratings thread

[Attezzobal]

Examples of them being subjectively assigned?

What changes would you make?

Is this going to end up being like the fantasy baseball money holding thing?

[TbT]

shit.  this could get tough.  i think maybe the dee-nee community could look over the teams that have been created and if theres a mass outcry for changes in particular for certain players/teams then maybe those need to be made...how we come into agreement with this is the next problem.

maybe we need to have a slug of ppl come up with ratings  for the teams then take the average for each player, which would be time consuming for whoever had to chart all this info. 

[JoeDirt]

Examples of them being subjectively assigned?

What changes would you make?

Is this going to end up being like the fantasy baseball money holding thing?

It's nothing personal and I haven't looked at the ratings in some time, but it just seems to me that the ROM would be a lot better if there was a little more consistency in what ability/stat translated into what rating.  It's nobody's fault--it's to be expected when 10 different people (or how many ever) create ratings for 10 different teams without any kind of common guidline, formula, etc.

[OctoFranco]

Examples of them being subjectively assigned?

What changes would you make?

Is this going to end up being like the fantasy baseball money holding thing?

It's nothing personal and I haven't looked at the ratings in some time, but it just seems to me that the ROM would be a lot better if there was a little more consistency in what ability/stat translated into what rating.  It's nobody's fault--it's to be expected when 10 different people (or how many ever) create ratings for 10 different teams without any kind of common guidline, formula, etc.

Tradition, my friend.  Do you think the Japs had a scientific formula when they were creating this game in the mid-80s?  It's admittedly subjective, but as long as the final product is playable, there should be no problem.

[JoeDirt]

True, but I'm saying that we should be basing the ratings on the original game...not our subjective opinions.

[TommyD (MrOJ)]

I don't either..

[TempoGL]

The issue is that he will only ship to one address...that is why I headed up project arcade cart.

I'm not sure I can get behind this one, though...mostly because I do not agree with the way the ratings are being so subjectively assigned (no offense to anybody).

well, i said that i would take advice from people if my ratings seemed off.  even if no one gets behind it, i will make my own ratings and get a copy made for myself.

[OctoFranco]

Why are we getting so ahead of ourselves talking about paying cash for a cartridge copy, anyway?  Most people who would wind up eventually playing any ROM we finish will be playing it in just that form -- a ROM.  So there's no point in discussing now whether any finished product will be worth the money, let's just get this thing off the assembly line so the masses can enjoy it for free, and a let the handful who want to play on a proper NES for a few bucks do so, if they so choose.

And if there's really no one out there who knows the Astros decently who can volunteer to work on that team's stats, I'll offer to put them together next, despite the fact that I know comparatively little about them.  Really, if there is someone more qualified to take them (or any other team you know about) off somebody else's less qualified hands, feel free speak up.

There are some Cards fans here who could kick things into action to put that team together too, aren't there?  Rally, people, damn it... Rally!

[TommyD (MrOJ)]

You stole my team   And underated one guy's speed by about 10

[OctoFranco]

You stole my team   And underated one guy's speed by about 10

Okay, okay, maybe I was giving him a hard time for personal reasons (I love the guy and do think he should be MVP, but god damn, when there's a runner on first with less than two outs, I secretly hope he will strike out because I reiterate the fact that he has not once since the turn of the millenium legged out a close DP).  I'll bump him up to 130 speed, unless somebody else is also compelled that it should be lower.  Feel free to give any other suggestions.

[TommyD (MrOJ)]

I secretly hope he hits a home.  But don't tell anyone.  132 sounds good to me

Also, wut's w/ Giles terrible contact?

[OctoFranco]

I secretly hope he hits a home.  But don't tell anyone.  132 sounds good to me

Also, wut's w/ Giles terrible contact?

I think contact was pretty arbitrarily determined in the original, so I didn't put too much thought into the contact ratings, though I guess I could drop Giles' down a bit (I'd still like his to be higher than Furcal's though).  And I also want Andruw to be slightly slower than Chipper, so we'll compromise on a speed of 130

What do you think about the pitcher ratings?

[OctoFranco]

Shit, upon closer inspection, I guess it wasn't so arbitary after all.  Contact is almost perfectly proportional to the player's batting average, relative to the other players on the team.  For example, here is the Boston batting roster organized from highest average to lowest.  Note the trend in contact that goes along with it.


Player    Avg   Cnt

Boggs    .357   4
Rice     .324   10
Buckner  .292   14
Barrett  .286   16
Gedman   .274   21
Burks    .272   28
Hendu    .265   26
Armas    .264   28
Baylor   .263   29
Evans    .259   27
Owen     .231   34
Stinky   .193   38


Notice the almost perfect correlation, save the minor exceptions of Henderson and DwEvns.  I'll work on having Atlanta's contact fit this mold in the near future.  Tedious work.

[JoeDirt]

This is exactly what I was talking abut...good find, oct.

[OctoFranco]

Okay, so it's not relative to the rest of the team after all.  Contact tends to follow some sort of formula, although not perfectly consistent.  Here is a list of which batting averages fall into which contact rating for each of the 120 batters in the game:



cnt   avg

4    .357
5   
6    .307, .332, .343
7    .370
8    .325, .327
9
10   .320, .324, .324, .332
11   .290, .330, .353
12   .305, .316, .338
13   .308, .312
14   .290, .291, .292, .298, .307, .308, .311, .313, .323
15   .292, .295, .303
16   .280, .281, .285, .286, .300, .305
17   .284, .295, .298
18   .267 .275, .276, .280, .287, .289, .289, .289, .293
19   .271, .289, .294, .294, .296
20   .256, .267, .272, .277, .281, .282, .286, .293, .293
21   .267, .268, .274, .275, .277, .281, .286, .287
22   .265, .266, .267, .268, .282, .285
23   .259, .262, .273, .275, .286
24   .250, .251, .259, .265, .267
25   .257, .281
26   .253, .256, .265, .265
27   .258, .259
28   .248 .249, .249, .257, .257, .259, .261, .264, .272
29   .248, .257, .263
30   .247
31   .238, .261
32   .245, .250, .251
33
34   .225, .231, .241, .249
35
36
37
38   .193, .208, .245

There was one team (SL) which skewed the results slightly for some reason (and also AL and NL to a lesser extent), but there is still a very discernable pattern here.  So my rough blueprint for calculating contact ratings for the 2005 ROM would be like this:


  For avg.     Use cnt

.175 - .245    30 - 38
.230 - .260    26 - 32
.250 - .280    20 - 28
.275 - .300    14 - 22
.290 - .315    11 - 18
.310 - .375     4 - 12


Notice the tremendous overlap I'm allowing for to still fit in with the original RBI.  If someone wants to set up a more scientific formula (or discovers any such scientific formula existing in RBI), feel free to do so.

[OctoFranco]

Right, so here are the Braves as they stand now with contact numbers updated, and a few other minor tweakings:

No  Name    R/L   Avg  HR  Cnt Pwr  Spd
========================================

01 Furcal   LHB  .284  12  18  795  146
02 Giles    RHB  .291  15  18  834  138
03 CJones   LHB  .296  21  16  895  132
04 AJones   RHB  .263  51  24  955  130
05 LaRche   LHB  .259  20  27  851  124
06 Fnceur   RHB  .300  14  12  867  134
07 Lngrhs   LHB  .267  8   22  835  128
08 Estrda   LHB  .261  4   25  810  120

========================================

09 Orr      LHB  .300  1   14  744  143
10 KJhnsn   LHB  .244  9   30  825  130
11 McCann   LHB  .278  5   20  820  124
12 Franco   RHB  .275  9   20  833  132




No  Name    R/L  ERA   Sf   Sr   Ss  Cl  Cr  Dr  En
===================================================

01 Smoltz   RHP  3.06  204  188  153  10  6  10  50
02 Hudson   RHP  3.52  194  168  147  8   7  6   50
03 Ritsma   RHP  3.93  190  164  145  7   5  7   15
04 Fnswth   RHP  1.98  208  179  175  5   3  4   15

[TommyD (MrOJ)]

There was one team (SL) which skewed the results slightly for some reason

A St. Louis fan on the staff 

[Attezzobal]

What if we go with HR/AB for power numbers? I think that that'll be the best way to go about it.

This is sort of ripping off Beefmaster and how he gave Morneau more power since he played half a season and such.

Also, as far as contact goes, I'd prefer to use OBP, this way a guy like Giambi who takes a lot of pitches doesn't get penalized for walking. If that makes any sense.

[TommyD (MrOJ)]

What if we go with HR/AB for power numbers? I think that that'll be the best way to go about it.

This is sort of ripping off Beefmaster and how he gave Morneau more power since he played half a season and such.

Also, as far as contact goes, I'd prefer to use OBP, this way a guy like Giambi who takes a lot of pitches doesn't get penalized for walking. If that makes any sense.

NOOOOOO That would screw Chip

[fightonusc]

I can't remember if a finalized 2005 ROM ever existed. I've been playing around with different forumlas for calculating the speed, contact and power attributes, and I decided to build a 2005 ROM to test out the results.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the results - none of the numbers seem that far off-base.

The pitching stats ARE more subjective than anything else, based on my own research into player's scouting reports, etc. Power numbers are based on a formula that takes into account HR/AB and slugging percentage above or below the league average. Contact is based on player's batting average, the league batting average, player strikeouts/AB and leaguewide strikeouts/AB. Speed numbers are based on player SBs, times GIDP, factored in with the total number of SB in the league and the league leader's SB total.

(If anyone is really interested in seeing the Excel spreadsheet with all the formulas, let me know.)

Pitching stats are subjective, but based on some pretty solid research on pitcher's stuff, and what pitches they throw.

One note on pitcher's hitting attributes: I tweaked the contact and power formulas to reflect the 'average" pitcher rather than versus the "average" player. (The exception to this rule is Dontrelle Willis, who hit better than several position/bench players in the game - I based his stats on regular factors.) I put a cap on how bad a pitcher's hitting coudl be at the standard RBI pitcher attributes: 640 PWR, 64 CT, 120 SPEED, and used that as the default for all AL pitchers.

Anyway, the ROM is attached, as is the text roster. You can also download the ROM at Nightwulf's site. Let me know if you think it needs any tweaking.