San Fran's Pitching Staff

[_13eoWuLF__]

I play curve style and I think left handers can be a bonus however if a pitcher has good movement to both sides I think you can do well. I for one love it when a pitcher has good stamina along with the good movement like gooden. The best is when your pitcher can start a pitch outside then bring it back for a strike. That pitch can really piss off your buddies. Another thing i noticed is i don't do as well with soem of the lefties in the game that can't bring the ball back to the other side of their normal movement like viola. I mean most can bring the aball back some but not nearly as well as most right handers. But fernando can be just a brutal curve slinger.

[Gantry]

I can attest to that, vit & I played a shortened game and I couldn't get anything when Fernando was in.  had that nasty "pitch outside, then curve for a strike at the last second" thing going...

[OzzieLongBall]

Here was the main issue I was referring to before... When a pitcher begins to tire, I find the first thing that goes is his ability to "re-curve", or move the ball in 2 directions, as has been discussed... so this leaves you with a one time, most likely late, breaking ball.. i PREFER to throw this on the outside corner against an opposite handed batter... for instance, if I have Tudor going against Grich, I throw it on the right side of the plate, and maybe/maybe not cut that corner at the last second... the DIFFERENCE lies in the fact that if it were a lefty at the plate, this same pitch would be on the inside corner... while it may still be effective occasionaly, the batter doesn't necessarily have to read the ball/strike correctly to hit it... against a righty, he absolutely has to be correct on the ball/strike call... now some people may counter with the fact that you can throw that big swooping curve against the hitter were he a lefty, in this example with Tudor, it would start all the way to the right and (ideally) cut outside just out of the lefty's reach... HOWEVER, think about how much more effect this would be against a righty, especially after throwing a series of those outside corner pitches I referred to earlier??  I mean, i know this is my preference, but I really feel like your options are better with a L/R or R/L match-up, and you have a lesser likelihood to leave a ball in a hittable position... for those of you that disagree, please explain (not sarcastic here, just literally curious) why you feel that a tiring ace or a middle tier guy has more options in the R/R or L/L situation... i add that caveat of tiring ace because, pitching with a fresh Tudor/Gooden/etc is like being a kid in a candy store... you've got more options than you know what to do with, and there is no "wrong" way to strike somebody out, which is about all those guys do for the first 3-5 innings...


on a sidenote, since the real life Cards are playing so well, I'm getting more than my fair share of '87 Cards references on ESPN/Baseball Tonight/ESPN News... even a few talks about how fast they were on the basepaths... to which all i can say is, "damn straight"

[JoeDirt]

First off, I'm amazed that in this "day and age," I'm reading about detailed pitching strategies of RBI Baseball, circa 1987.  I applaude this entire group!

Secondly, Ozzie is right, in my opinion.  To simplify it as much as possible, if I'm Tudor and you are Trammell, I can start the ball outside and at the last second, nip the outer half of the outer half of the plate.  If I see you activate the launch sequence (start your swing), I still have time to not nip that corner--causing you to "reach" for the ball and likely producing a ground out.  If I don't see you start your swing, I'll nip the corner.  

If I nip the corner and you swing, the ball still hits the outer part of your bat.  Now, you can certainly still drive the ball, but it's not as likely.  If I keep you honest and bust you inside every now and again, you can't sit on that outside curve--and I'm likely to get you.

However, if I'm Tudor and you're Reggie, I have problems because I can't play this game.  Tudor's outside curve to Reggie has to start the ball over the plate and curve it off the plate--if I make a mistake, the ball is hanging over the plate for you to mash.  If I go inside often, you can back up and  hit the ball with any part of the bat.  BUT, if I am able to go outside often, you're best guess will still net only solid contact with the end of the bat.

[OzzieLongBall]

Well said JoeDirt, although I too tried to make it as simple as possible... I guess it's just tough to illustrate our point without watching the pitching combinations we are talking about... But do you understand the other side to this issue? Why would one ever choose R/R or L/L if given the choice??  And kudos for mastering that use of the split second where you realize the batter is going to swing, that takes some time... Impressive!

[Gantry]

For the record JoeD took fourth at the recent COTUT tourney in chicago while his longtime playing partner took 1st.  He very well may have been one pitch to Keith Hernandez away from the finals...

I have a lot to learn in curve..

[fknmclane]

Shit, and I thought slurve took mastering.
JoeD can adjust a pitch at the drop of a hat. Very impressive.

[capt_taco]

I've always found the double-curve/nip the corner an OK strategy, but it leaves you wide open to power hitters if you mess up even a little or the pitcher gets even a little tired.

So screw that -- I've always had the best luck just trying to jam all the lefty hitters with right-handed pitching. Start at the far left, and throw a pitch with an amount of curve TBA. You can either go massively inside, which will be a weak hit every time if they don't swing and miss entirely. About a third of the time, try to nip the outside corner or just leave the ball hanging over the outside of the plate. If you see they're waiting on certain pitches, just do the opposite a few times.

Basically, if you can keep them guessing as to what part of the plate the pitch will be, it's maddening, and even a good hitter can't get in any kind of rhythm or figure out your patterns. It's all a mind game.

[JoeDirt]

I've always found the double-curve/nip the corner an OK strategy, but it leaves you wide open to power hitters if you mess up even a little or the pitcher gets even a little tired.

I don't understand what you mean by this.  If you make sure to miss outside, it's not hitable--and if it is hitable, it's often a "reach" hit and results in a weak ground out.  If you don't miss, it's a great pitch.  It's easy to not miss right down the middle...

So screw that -- I've always had the best luck just trying to jam all the lefty hitters with right-handed pitching. Start at the far left, and throw a pitch with an amount of curve TBA.

Wow, this seems incredibly risky.  Why wouldn't I, as the batter, just sit on one location and mash it when it comes up?  I only have to hit the ball once per at bat...

You can either go massively inside, which will be a weak hit every time if they don't swing and miss entirely.

Unless they just take the pitch--which most at the COTUT would, almost everytime.

[JoeDirt]

For the record JoeD took fourth at the recent COTUT tourney in chicago while his longtime playing partner took 1st.  He very well may have been one pitch to Keith Hernandez away from the finals...

Yeah, I'm still steaming mad about that...I was really disappointed at the COTUT...I didn't have my "A" game.  Really, I think I let the excitement of the COTUT build up for months before it actually took place--too much for me to handle!  

But I was really happy to see my boy Riley win it.  I guess it was also sort of a backward compliment to me, as he and I usually go back and forth on who wins...

[Gantry]

Not to mention you have a year under your belt, you know what to expect...

Great discussion all around everyone, keep it going

[fknmclane]

When it comes to slurve the strategy differs greatly.  I could be mistaken, but I assume strikeouts are commonplace or at least occur in curve?  In slurve I just try and get my opponent to hit the ball on the ground.  I guess the best way of putting it is "damage control."

Every pitch has to be a strike, so high-scoring games are  very normal.  But sometimes Chubbs and I will have a 2-1 nail biter.  It's rare and it usually occurs long before we're tanked, but it happens.

[capt_taco]

When playing "true" curve (no penalty if it's not a strike), I always remember that strikeouts were fairly common, but far more common were weak hits and pop-ups caused by getting jammed or hitting the ball off the end of the bat. If you don't know whether the next pitch is going to be anywhere near the strike zone or not, or which side its going to, it's hard to be prepared. It's even possible to come up cursing when you get a pitch right down the middle and foul it off because you thought it was going inside.

Slurve style was always much easier for me to hit in, since it basically takes several options off the table for the pitcher. Far fewer mind games are possible.