Challenging Gantry's philosophy

[Blyleven_No-No]

Gantry, as our faithful leader, I would like to challenge your logic on the Dee-Nee website....here goes:


For example, your advice for the NL starting lineup, you advise somebody to sub in all 4 pinch hitters in the top 8 roster spots...how can that be a good idea??

You leave 0 pinch hitters on the bench for when your pitcher comes up.

There is something to be said for bringing an Armas or a Hendricks in at an ideal point in the game rather than just making sure they get their 4 at bats per game.  Know what I mean??

[ultimate7]

Remeber that Gantry plays straight pitch, so that changes things a bit.  
While I agree with you to an extent, I would never go as far as not bringing in Armas for Spike Owen, the difference is way too big.

I would not sub all 4 for the NL all-stars.

[ultimate7]

An additional note:

That wasn't written by Gantry, it was Sperling, not that it makes much difference.

[Blyleven_No-No]

AHHH....my apologies, agreed though, a Spike Owen would never stay in the game, but maybe pinch hit Hendu and leave Armas for when you really need a homer

[Flood]

AHHH....my apologies, agreed though, a Spike Owen would never stay in the game, but maybe pinch hit Hendu and leave Armas for when you really need a homer

Or don't save him and hit 3 homers and ground into 2 double plays.  

[JoeDirt]

For example, your advice for the NL starting lineup, you advise somebody to sub in all 4 pinch hitters in the top 8 roster spots...how can that be a good idea??

Who do you leave in, then?  In my opinion, you MUST go with this line up:

Raines
Guerrero
Murphy
Dawson
Davis
Schmidt
Kruk
Gwynn

See, if you save one of those, it makes sense that it'd be Gwynn (the "worst" of the 4 PHs)...but his biggest strength is slapping the ball btwn 3b and ss and legging out a base hit--which isn't an option with runners on (which is when you'd want to bring in a PH in the first place).

Okay, so perhaps because of that, you bench Kruk and start Gwynn.  Now you have your worst PH in the line up AND a bum in the starting line up that should have been replaced.  Who is that?  It can't be Sandberg or Santiago, because you just can't break up the powerful combo of Raines, Guerrero, Murphy, Dawson, Davis, Schmidt...that's just too deadly.  It can't be Galarraga, because if it is, the P will just walk people in front of him to get to Galarraga and his double play.  It can't be Pedrique because that basically leaves you with two pitchers batting in a row...

[Ryno23]

I will cut my nut sack from my body before I sub anyone for Ryne Sandberg.






I will also agree that sandberg isn't the sharpest tool in the rbi shed.

[ultimate7]

Gwynn and Kruk don't offer enough to be subbed in, leave 2 of Sandberg. Santiago and Galarraga, save Kruk for 1st important PH.

[JoeDirt]

Leave TWO of them?!  That's shameful.  Why keep TWO shitty players when you could have zero?  

[fknmclane]

For the NL, you have no choice but to bring every pinch hitter in.  If you play your cards right, your pitcher won't be in a situation where his at bat really matters.

[ultimate7]

Leave TWO of them?!  That's shameful.  Why keep TWO shitty players when you could have zero?  

I don't see how you can claim that Kruk and Gwynn aren't shitty?

[JoeDirt]

Well, they aren't.  They aren't studs, but I wouldn't say they are shitty, either.  Gwynn is a good slap hitter (better than OSmith, Herr--whom are both generally not considered "shitty").  Kruk has some pop--unlike Galarraga and Pedrique.  IMO, Galarraga can barely hit the ball in straight pitch, let alone curve.  He's like the right handed version of Baines--should be very good, but just isn't.

Kruk the truck, however, can go yard on even a quality pitch--and not just in his 1st ab.

[Flood]

keep sandberg and benito in...sub murphy for Cancer Cat and Pedro G. for Pedrique.  Keep Gwynn and Kruk until you are totally desperate...which should never happen since you're playing with an "All Star" team.

[Blyleven_No-No]

The answer to your question is that the only person that you HAVE to sub out is Pedrique.   You can let Sandberg or Santiago hit, I actually would pinch hit Murphy in the 2 spot, leave Santiago, and bring in Guerrero when your pitcher is up later in the game.

[JoeDirt]

That is so stupid.  Leave Guerrero's bat out of the line up and get him MAYBE one at bat per game?  I respect the opinions of others, but that just makes no sense, man!  

[Flood]

I don't understand "saving" good players...I can see saving a guy like Sullivan...he's good for one at-bat (tops).  But why bench a guy with multi-HR potential?

[fightonusc]

In principle, I understand what Blyleven is saying. It's a shitty feeling to be out of PHers in a situation late in the game when you need a big hit, and you're stuck with a pitcher or mediocre hitter at the plate. But, I think I fall on the side of the others overall. If you are managing your starting pitcher correctly, you should be able to get 6-7 innings out of him, meaning that you aren't going to be using a PH in the pitcher's spot before then.

Plus, I think that a good player knows how to make their pitcher a tough out (swinging bunts, weak grounders to third, etc.). And it's a team-by-team situation. As for the NL All-Star team, I do have some disagreements with Sperling's suggestions:

* I would use Guerrero and Murphy for Sandberg and Santiago. I can't have those two guys (Sandberg and Santiago) taking up valuable real estate at the front of the line-up when Guerrero and Murphy are riding the pine. I want to get my best hitters as many at-bats as possible, and if putting Guerrero and Murphy at two and three in the order results in an extra AB a game for Guerrero (versus batting him for Pedrique as Sperling suggests), then it's worth it.

* I actually would leave Gallarraga in at the seventh spot to start. I don't think that the difference between him and Gwynn or Kruk is that much more, and you can have at least one PH in reserve in case.

* Obviously, sub someone, anyone in for Pedrique. I would go with Gwynn since he is more likely to hit balls on the ground and test the infield, especially with his speed. But you could make a case for Kruk here too. Also, leaving Kruk on the bench means that when you do use him as a PHer, you'll someone that with the first AB bonus will have decent pop. Even with the bonus, Gwynn is still Punch & Judy.

[JoeDirt]

ggests), then it's worth it.

* I actually would leave Gallarraga in at the seventh spot to start. I don't think that the difference between him and Gwynn or Kruk is that much more, and you can have at least one PH in reserve in case.

I think Kruk or Gwynn both make a ton of sense because they are a lot less likely to hit into the DP...Galarraga just sucks, but even besides that, he's 1) rightie, 2) slow, and 3) hits a lot of double play-eligible balls.  

This is very dangerous, since with a 1-6 of Raines, Guerrero, Murphy, Dawson, Davis, Schmidt preceding him---potential for lots of baserunners!

[Gantry]

Even with the bonus, Gwynn is still Punch & Judy.

Not to hijack the thread, but what do you mean by Punch & Judy?  The Wikipedia Entry taught me something new, but I can't fit the context...

[fightonusc]

ggests), then it's worth it.

* I actually would leave Gallarraga in at the seventh spot to start. I don't think that the difference between him and Gwynn or Kruk is that much more, and you can have at least one PH in reserve in case.

I think Kruk or Gwynn both make a ton of sense because they are a lot less likely to hit into the DP...Galarraga just sucks, but even besides that, he's 1) rightie, 2) slow, and 3) hits a lot of double play-eligible balls.  

This is very dangerous, since with a 1-6 of Raines, Guerrero, Murphy, Dawson, Davis, Schmidt preceding him---potential for lots of baserunners!

I can make a case for Gwynn over Gallarraga - much, much more speed and a ridiculous contact rating. I can't make the case for Kruk, though. The only real upgrade you get is in speed, and I personally don't think that it's enough of a difference to justify not having at least one PH at some point in the game.