"BOP"s explained

[fknmclane]

Nightwulf is 99% sure hitting the button too early has no effect on the BOP.  The BOP is decided before the ball gets to your glove.  Nightwulf, correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm the last guy who should be putting words in your mouth.

[fightonusc]

Nightwulf is 99% sure hitting the button too early has no effect on the BOP.  The BOP is decided before the ball gets to your glove.  Nightwulf, correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm the last guy who should be putting words in your mouth.

In the Olympic spirit of fairness, I'm going to avoid making any comment about fknmclane putting anything in Nightwulf's mouth...

[ericdavisfan]

I am very impressed!!!  Good work nightwulf!

I am a bit shocked that California isn't the worst defensive team, but I don't second guess the wulf!

[fknmclane]

Nightwulf is 99% sure hitting the button too early has no effect on the BOP.  The BOP is decided before the ball gets to your glove.  Nightwulf, correct me if I'm wrong.  I'm the last guy who should be putting words in your mouth.

In the Olympic spirit of fairness, I'm going to avoid making any comment about fknmclane putting anything in Nightwulf's mouth...

I set you up for that pretty well.  You took it and ran with it.  Nicely done.

[SmokedUBad13]

Alright, I take back what I said earlier.  I just can't believe 100% in this theory.  The pitcher does commit more bops then the normal fielder.

I think nightwulf's theory is on the right path, but not completely correct.  I think there's more to it and that he's missing another factor or two that determine which position/players commit the most bops.

The position where I experience the most bops is pitcher and the least is center fielder.

Back to the team issue... Detroit can't be the worst.  Compared to other teams, I'm virtually errorless with them in my games.

Something is missing in this theory.

Beales
www.rbibaseballcotut.com - The R.B.I. Baseball COTUT

[nightwulf]

I'm done with this. If anyone's interested in trying to take it further, I'm at the point where I've identified $DDD8 as the first line of executable code that runs when a player is about to touch the ball, but only if the play is "eligible" for a BOP (that is, the ball has left the bat but not yet touched a wall or another fielder). Set a breakpoint there and follow the code. It's fairly straightforward.

No, I don't think throwing early has anything to do with it. This block of code (starting at $DDD8, ending with the conditional branch at $DDF2) is very short, and there's simply no difference in statements executed or variables set based on controller input. The first statement that executes once an error has definitely occured is $DDF4, and I've found no explicit or relative jumps to that statement from elsewhere in the code. One way to take this project further would be to set your team's error probability to zero and try to force a "BOP" by throwing too quickly. If it does, (and I don't believe it's possible), identifying where the call is made to increment the error count would be the next step.

I also don't believe executing a "quick" throw has anything to do with it. I only found two statements in the game which modify the error count. One runs as a part of this block (BOPs), and the other runs as a part of a block of code that executes any time the ball touches a wall (throwing errors). I don't have to search through pages of game code to identify the mechanics behind the "quick" throw to know that there's no call to increment the error count there; all calls to the subroutine that increments errors (all two of them) have been identified.

So yes, I don't see any reason at code-level for attempting to throw the ball early to cause a "BOP". Try setting a breakpoint at the address above and play. You'd have to be throwing absurdly early, as the determination of whether or not a fielding error occurs takes place shortly before the ball reaches your player. That said, I'm not totally closed to the possibility. It's possible that a jump to the error-incrementing routine occurs through a relative address (which I haven't found by watching for calls to that routine in-game, and I highly doubt), or it's possible that controller use is somehow skewing the random number generator. The RNG is based purely on mathematical operations performed on three variables, so I don't find this to be likely.

So that's it. No, I don't see any evidence that throwing early has any bearing on fielding errors. No, the code behind executing a "quick" throw is not of any relation to the block that determines fielding errors. No, in years of gameplay, I've not noticed early throws to 'cause BOPs. No, I don't doubt that anyone else has observed this; I don't "rule things out" simpy because I haven't experienced them. Yes, I'm well aware of how to make a "quick" throw, thank you. Someone else can take over this project and the snide fucking remarks that come with it.

Nightwulf

[Gantry]

I wholeheartedly agree witt the team/Detroit BOP issue.  The test he did completely proves this to be true and I can't see how it can be incorrect...

As for the pitcher BOP, I do switch fielders but thats mostly out of habit.  I can't really say the pitcher is worse, I'm pretty confident it's superstition.   As for the center fielder making the least amount of BOPs, that's completely new for me...

Seems like everyone here has different BOP conspiracy theories, myself included.  It just goes to show how habitual and stubborn we are in our ideas, again myself included.  I'm going to have to seriously consider the fast-BOP throw idea I'm clinging to.  Gotta keep an open mind and let the stats play themselves...

[ultimate7]

The other thing I was fairly certain caused BOPs was not being centered to the ball, if you fielded just off center, BOPs were more likely.  Thanks for all the work Nightwulf.

[Gantry]

Actually, I did notice this too good call!  I think I'll take over the BOP research, as nightwulf is clearly sick of all the headaches.  I'm a glutton for punishment, though keep in mind I don't have the assembly skill he does.  In fact I have little-to-no idea what I'm doing but what the hell...

[Big Hath]

It seems to me as well that bops occur when fielding off-center and when  trying to throw too early

[JoeDirt]

Do you guys ever sense a bop coming if you play back on the ball?  For example, if you "let the ball play you," to take a baseball phrase, instead of playing the ball?

Thanks...I'll hang up and listen.

[TβG]

does the "throw too early" or controller input stuff have anything to do with a bop when the baserunner wiggles back and forth to cause an error or is that myth too?

basically, does the "runner wiggle" have any effect on a bop?

[Gantry]

I haven't seen the runner wiggle BOP myself.  I think at this point you have to assume that none of these BOP techniques actually work.  Everyone is all over the place and we haven't seen any evidence in the game yet...

I will start playing with the game and get deeper into the matter.  I'd like to prove the fast throw BOP one way or the other, but the odds are against me right now.  My 99% sure went to 90% in one day, not I'm thinking 65%

[BDawk]

Thanks...I'll hang up and listen.

I like this style.

Hey guys, how's it going. Uh, I've got a suggestion that will help St. Louis become a better team.
How about if they trade um, Lake, Ford, uh, Tony Pena, and their third and fourth round picks for Reggie uh, Jackson.

Thanks for taking the call.

[Wilfong]

Bump - for T Roog.

I had 4 BOPs w/Detroit last night - Trammel averages more than an error a game for me. Ozzie Smith is good for just about one a game for me too.

[Shooty]

Nightwulf...being I'm a numbers guy, can you clear up a few questions that linger.  

A) Is 0 a potential outcome of the random number generator?

B) If a team has a BOP rating of 11, does that mean that anything l"ess than" 11 will cause an error or will 11 also induce an error?

Thanks!

[Lips]

Shooty-

For some reason, I geeked out and read through Nightwulf's findings yesterday, when I thought the percentages might be slightly off.  But like you guessed, 0 counts ("A random one-byte number (0-255) is generated").  And BOPs only come when strictly less than the random number.

So the percentages hold up.

"That is, if you're fielding with St. Louis, you will make a fielding error if the random number is less than 11."

So 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 are all gonna force a bop to occur. That's 11 numbers out of 255 ("St. Louis: 4.3%").

[Lips]

WAIT...there's 256 (0-255) numbers though.

"Ah cHAAAAAAa...ah hhhhhha" (imagine Coming to America).

[Lips]

Ok, anyways...all the numbers are divided by 256, my bad.  And the percentages check out!!

[nightwulf]

Nightwulf