Mark McGwire and the 2007 HOF

[Caveman]

Stat fuck up - my bad.

Still the hits, and lack of defense just don't do it for me...o yea and the fact that he is most likely a steroid user and all of his hall of fame like numbers are power numbers. With this considered i think he needed three or more good years to be first ballot HOF.

I do think he has a good cance at making it in, this does not mean i would vote for him.

[Shooty]

I've sad it once and I'll say it again....Tony Gwynn was the best hitter of our generation.  He is a complete lock.  McGwire will definitely not make the HOF in 2007 and would bet good money on it.  Seriously...who wants to bet?

[Attezz]

I desperately want to bet, but I'd prefer to bet on your side.

[JoeDirt]

Thanks sir Gantry.  It is true that I am the one who is dumb.

[Caveman]

I loved watching Tony Gwynn play. The last AB i watched him take was vs. the giants in his final season, the crowd gave him a standing ovation and shit .  I recall it being a long Gwynn like at bat, around 10 pitches.  He eventually lined the a ball right down the 1st based side only to have extra bases taken away from him by JT in like the 8th, surely is last AB in San Francisco. I was pretty mad that the ball didnt go through. I watch Tony Gwynn play alot in person and he should be, and will be a 1st ballot HOFer.

[Dryden]

Barry Bonds is the best hitter of our generation.  If you don't think so, you haven't been paying attention (steroids aside).

McGwire had many amazing seasons - '96 (52 HR in only 130 G), '97, '98, '99...

That's a lot of insane years, steroids or no.  And to say that his "only" qualification is hitting lots of home runs and drawing lots of walks, well, what else should he have to do?  Having a higher career OPS than Mickey Mantle, well, that's pretty impressive, I'd say.

[Metal King]

ONLY 1,414 RBI'S???  That's pretty damn good for a 16-year career!!  That's a higher total than more than a dozen Hall of Famers have HITS.  The last 3 years of Big Mac's career (1999-2001),  he had more rbi's than hits each season.  Steroids or not, that's still pretty impressive.   Remember, he's had all the back and heel injuries too, even long before the steroid talk.

And with 583 homers, he's gotta be elected in some year, just might not be 2007.

Anyway,  congrats to Bruce Sutter for being elected in 2006 (feh).  Lee Smith 478 saves Lee Smith 478 saves Lee Smith 478 saves Lee Smith 478 saves Lee Smith 478 saves Lee Smith 478 saves Lee Smith 478 saves Lee Smith 478 saves Lee Smith 478 saves, What in the hell were the voters NOT smoking or snorting???

It's over for Gossage, Dawson, Blyleven and Rice in my opinion..

[Attezz]

Nice first post.

[RedBarron]

Do you think Gossage, Dawson, Blyleven and Rice are undeserving or do you think the voters won't do the right thing and put 'em in?

If history holds true, Dawson and Rice will get in --- they eclipsed the 60 percent mark (didn't they?).   

[Gantry]

Not to speak for him, but I definitely took it as this was their last chance to get voted in.  I'm inclined to agree, though I'm far from an expert on the whole voting situation..

[fightonusc]

I'd like to point out that McGwire stole three bases in 1997 without getting caught stealing! If that doesn't help his HoF credentials, nothing will...

[Dryden]

It wasn't their last chance.  In all likelihood, Dawson and Rice will be elected in a few years.

A player's hall eligibility ends one of three ways:

They are elected
They fail to get 5% on a given ballot
They spend 15 years on the ballot without being elected

They then move to the veteran's committee (after 15 years have elapsed, if not elected).

[Gantry]

Whoops, I didn't explain myself well.  Though I didn't know the exact details above (thanks pretty lady) I meant "last chance" as in "last realistic chance to get the 75% or whatever"

I don't know enough about the veterans committee, except they are taking their sweet fucking time on Santo.  How many folks have they elected in the last 15 or so years?

[Dryden]

Dawson and Rice are very likely to get elected in 3 years or so.  They have lots of eligibility left (of course, Rice doesn't belong in the hall of fame, but that's a different thread).

The VC (in its new form) meets every 2 years, and is composed of all of the living hall of fame players, who need to vote 75% for a given player to elect them.  In all likelihood (given that people like Mike Schmidt have said that no one who isn't there deserves to be there) they will not elect anyone else, and the procedure for election will be redrawn.

The VC is responsible for most of the hall of fame's historical mistakes (other than Tony Perez, anyway).  In particular, there were 2 bad periods for the VC - one when Frankie Frisch led the committee and filled the hall of fame with his former teammates (Freddie Lindstrom, Jesse Haines, Chick Hafey, George Kelly, Jim Bottomley...) who as a group represent the absolute worst hall of famers ever, and the Tommy McCarthy period, when people were elected for ridiculous reasons.

Since 1998, the VC has elected:

George Davis
Larry Doby
Lee MacPhail
Joe Rogan
Orlando Cepeda
Nestor Chylak
Frank Selee
Joe Williams
Sparky Anderson
Bid McPhee
Turkey Stearnes
Bill Mazeroski
Hilton Smith

Some of these, like Joe Rogan and Joe Williams, were great, long-overdue selections.

The Mazeroski selection was so bad, it is pretty much what led to the committee being re-formed.

[Dryden]

Actual worst hall of famer, by the way:

Morgan Bulkeley.  Who?

http://www.all-baseball.com/archives/018888.html

"Believe it or not, Bulkeley's entire contribution to Major League Baseball was in his figurehead title of National League President in 1876. No one claims he organized the National League (that was William Hulbert) or that he actually did anything of note in his single year in office. There's no proof that the man so much as attended a Major League game. He was elected purely because American League founder Ban Johnson was a shoo-in for 1937, and the powers-that-be wanted some NL figure- anyone at all- to balance him out."

[Metal King]

I'm back.

I didn't mean last chance for those guys either, I know about the less than 5% and yer out thing.  They just wont have as good of chances next year with Gwynn/Ripken, and possibly McGwire.

I think all those guys mentioned are most deserving for election.

Tim Raines gets his first shot I THINK, next year, maybe 2008,  can't remember if he retired in '01 or '02.  But we will and should have at least two RBI'ers get elected next year, and McGwire is the iffy one for 1st ballot.  And Rainsey isn't far behind.

[fknmclane]

Raines willl never get in and that's extremely shitty.  I think he was nearly as good as Rickey Rickey.

[RedBarron]

Raines couldn't hold Rickey B Rickey's jock.

Raines was good, but not nearly that good.


I'd give Raines HOF consideration. . . . . being the liberal that I am.

[ericdavisfan]

he hit singles, too.


Hey, good to have you back, sir dryden!

McGwire's singles were probably poorly hit steroid blasts that bounced off the wall, instead of landing in the seats.  Most guys would get a double, or triple off of them

[Bonny]

McGwire needs some Bondo for his face.