McGwire finally admits steroid use

[Mike D.]

Yeah, but they did hit all those homers.  So your argument is null and void.

[Nacho]

I agree that Mattingly should have taken steroids.

[edfan]

I don't think that it makes the argument null and void.  I think that steroids make the argument futile either way.  There is no way to prove that the guys could have hit those homers without steroids.  Likewise, there is no way to prove that they could not have done it.  The Catch 22 is that you vote in a bunch of admitted cheaters and you are basically rewarding them for cheating.  You don't vote them in and you are ignoring history as though it did not happen.  Either way is stupid, imo, so like WarGames the only winning move is not to play.  So where does that leave us?  I don't know!  I would probably default for voting them all in as it is a part of the game's history, but I am also for Joe Jackson and Pete Rose being in.  There just is no winning argument that I can find.

[Mike D.]

No, you're wrong.

[edfan]

No, you're wrong.

Clearly, that's what I've been trying to tell you this whole time.  You never listen anymore

[JerryD]

Gaylord Perry cheated, and he's in the Hall of Fame.

[edfan]

He's mostly in the HOF for being successful despite being named Gaylord

[Nacho]

I don't think that it makes the argument null and void.  I think that steroids make the argument futile either way.  There is no way to prove that the guys could have hit those homers without steroids.  Likewise, there is no way to prove that they could not have done it.  The Catch 22 is that you vote in a bunch of admitted cheaters and you are basically rewarding them for cheating.  You don't vote them in and you are ignoring history as though it did not happen.  Either way is stupid, imo, so like WarGames the only winning move is not to play.  So where does that leave us?  I don't know!  I would probably default for voting them all in as it is a part of the game's history, but I am also for Joe Jackson and Pete Rose being in.  There just is no winning argument that I can find.

You could always vote in the guys like McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds who stood out even in an era in which everyone was putting up big numbers, and not vote in the guys that put up big (but no huge) numbers since they weren't anything special for their era (Palmeiro, Pudge, Giambi, etc.).

[fathedX]

Where does that leave McGriff then?  Probably outside looking in.

[bonny]

Joey/Albert Belle - probable


Some of the guys that are listed as probable may have been busted or implicated, but I tried to to reach

Dont think Belle's name has ever been mentioned in any reports. He was just angry, black and the best clean AL hitter of the 90's not named Frank Thomas.

[BeefMaster]

He did have corked bats, but that's probably not as big a deal as steroids.

[Nacho]

Where does that leave McGriff then?  Probably outside looking in.

I was talking about those linked to steroids.  Those who aren't would be held to the same standards as those in the non-steroid era.

[Stock]

Where does that leave McGriff then?  Probably outside looking in.

Probably wishing he used the good steroids instead of the cheap stuff from Mexico.

[edfan]

Joey/Albert Belle - probable


Some of the guys that are listed as probable may have been busted or implicated, but I tried to to reach

Dont think Belle's name has ever been mentioned in any reports. He was just angry, black and the best clean AL hitter of the 90's not named Frank Thomas.

True.  And it is probably not fair for me to speculate.  He just goes on that list of, "If I found out that guy did steroids, I would not be surprised at all."

[bonny]

Kind of like Eric Davis.

[edfan]

I would not be surprised if it ever came out that he did steroids.  He was never huge, but if you look at him in the early Reds days compared with when he was with the Orioles/Cards then you can tell that he packed on some muscle.  I would like to think that if he had taken steroids, then he would have played more or a bit longer.

[Stock]

Joey/Albert Belle - probable


Some of the guys that are listed as probable may have been busted or implicated, but I tried to to reach

Dont think Belle's name has ever been mentioned in any reports. He was just angry, black and the best clean AL hitter of the 90's not named Frank Thomas.

True.  And it is probably not fair for me to speculate.  He just goes on that list of, "If I found out that guy did steroids, I would not be surprised at all."

I never buy this argument, but hear it all the time.
There is not one baseball player ever that is too holy to try something illegal, IMO.

You also can't use the argument, "He probably didn't take steroids since he was not huge." or vice versa.
Not all steroids have the same affect on the body (or even in different bodies).  There are skinny as fuck marathon runners that have used steroids for better cardio.

Like MikeD said, these players put up the numbers.  Their numbers had an impact on other players' numbers and teams' standings.  IMO, you have no choice to put these players in the hall if their stats are worthy.  It should be up to each individual to decide who deserves or does not deserve to be there because of their own code of ethics.

Probably all a moot point, as the HOF (just like pretty much any award that is decided by voters) is just a political sham.

This is why I calculate my own college football rankings, and make my own MMA rankings.
The only thing that matters to me is what is in my own head.  I don't give a shit what any dickhead voter says, Mac and Pete Rose are HOF'ers.

[Gantry]

There is not one baseball player ever that is too holy to try something illegal, IMO.

Dale Murphy? 

[Nacho]

There is not one baseball player ever that is too holy to try something illegal, IMO.

Dale Murphy? 

David DeJesus?

[Attezz]

There is not one baseball player ever that is too holy to try something illegal, IMO.

Dale Murphy? 

David DeJesus?

Alex Sanchez?