2013 HOF RBI'ers

[Metal King]

Well the only NEW one is Clemens, might take him a few tries since he didn't admit anything yet.  I hope Trammell and Raines' %'s go up.....  McGwire is screwed, no chance.

As for the non-RBI'ers making the Hall, I think it's just Biggio (he's on RBI 2 and 3), and Piazza.

Bonds and Sosa will be interesting....

[BeefMaster]

I think Raines will eventually get in, but it will probably take a concerted effort by the sabermetric community to help him, like they undertook with Blyleven.  Probably the second-greatest leadoff man of all time, just with the misfortune of playing at the same time as the greatest.

Trammell won't ever make it, but he's a deserving candidate.

[Gantry]

It's weird how their aren't really any known "leadoff men" of note until the modern era.  Was Cobb a leadoff guy?  Lou Brock? 

[BeefMaster]

Totally forgot about Cobb, who would be the greatest mostly because he hit like .370 for his career and often led the league in slugging percentage during the dead ball era.  No idea where he batted in the lineup, though.

Brock was a good pick as well, but he didn't have the power or OBP that Raines did, and his SB success rate was far worse as well.

I don't know that the stereotypical "leadoff man" was as big a deal prior to the 50s or 60s, and even then few people realized the value of OBP in that type of player, preferring to focus on speed.

[Gantry]

For the record I'm  not comparing Brock to Raines, just wondering if he was a "leadoff guy" - I just find it curious there weren't any players explicitly known as being leadoff men from about 1900-1970.  Did Henderson change the game and it became a template other teams followed?  Did the good fast guys in the early era simply bat 3rd in the lineup?  Honus Wagner?  Billy Hamilton? 

[BeefMaster]

I'm also not sure of that... I follow some baseball guys on Twitter; I should pose that question to them.

[Gantry]

Stop flapping your gums and do it already

[BeefMaster]

Gantry... fine.  I sent a tweet to Rob Neyer and Joe Posnanski, who seem like the most likely to respond to something like that.

[Nacho]

Are there really any great leadoff men around today? Seems like its not really a big deal anymore either.

[Shooty]

Are there really any great leadoff men around today? Seems like its not really a big deal anymore either.

Jose Reyes seems like a prototypical leadoff man, but he bats lower in the order most times, doesn't he?  Pretty sure the Jays plan on using him exclusively as the leadoff hitter.

I would think Elvis Andrus would be a decent leadoff hitter, but the Rangers use Kinsler there which strikes me as a bit strange.

[BDawk]

I like Jeter as a leadoff hitter

[bonny]

Alex Gordon has become a very good non-basestealing leadoff man.(10 sb in 2012) 7th in AL WAR

Not at all the player KC envisioned when they drafted him(power hitting 3B) But has turned into a grinder-dirty uniform type with actual talent.  Fun to watch and he wears one cap all season.

[BeefMaster]

Are there really any great leadoff men around today? Seems like its not really a big deal anymore either.

The Twins have had a fairly decent run of them.  The last few years, Denard Span has been a pretty prototypical leadoff guy - .350-ish OBP, 30 or so steals, 5 or so homers with a decent number of doubles.  Ben Revere, who was the heir-apparent before he was also traded, will give the Phillies a light version of that, more in the Juan Pierre mold - .300 with no walks or power but a ton of steals.  Before Span, they had Luis Castillo, and before him was Shannon Stewart, more .350+ OBP guys with speed (although Stewart was a bit gimpy by the time he came to Minnesota) and occasional power.

If Gardy would actually be unconventional, Joe Mauer would be a hell of a leadoff man - .400 OBP in the spot that gets the most plate appearances.  He doesn't steal many bases (although he did have 8 last year), but I've read some advanced analysis suggesting that he is generally a very good baserunner, taking extra bases at a good rate without getting caught very often, and he hits a shitload of doubles.

[BeefMaster]

Gantry... fine.  I sent a tweet to Rob Neyer and Joe Posnanski, who seem like the most likely to respond to something like that.

Neyer: "Good question! I'll try to write something before Poz beats me to it... "

[bonny]

Gordon also had 50 some doubles last year. So who needs SBs?

[fknmclane]

Gantry... fine.  I sent a tweet to Rob Neyer and Joe Posnanski, who seem like the most likely to respond to something like that.

Neyer: "Good question! I'll try to write something before Poz beats me to it... "

Please post link when/if they do.

After thinking about it for three seconds I'd say it has a fuck of a lot to do with the advent of cookie cutter stadiums and astro turf.  Dudes like Rickey, Raines, and Vince Coleman could fucking fly.  I'm sure there was a manager or two who came up with the leadoff guy and really stuck with it, probably some asshole LaRussa smarter than everyone else kitten fucker type.

Gordon also had 50 some doubles last year. So who needs SBs?

BUT HE CAN'T HIT FOR POWER!

[Gantry]

kitten fucker?

[Shooty]

Eddie Collins might have been the second best leadoff hitter after Rickey Henderson

[Metal King]

Rogers Hornsby, Joe Morgan, Eddie Collins Sr. the top 3 Second Basemen in history.  Gotta give Sandberg and Kent some credit too.

My picks would be Blyleven, Raines, or Jack Morris,  doubt any of the three will get in.  5 more days we find out!!

Biggio no doubt, Piazza pretty much the same.  No one else.  Bonds won't make it on try #1 but he should get a helluva lot more % than McGwire has been getting.  Sosa has 609 homers, that'll be interesting too.

[Gantry]

Beef posted on FB, but Neyer answered with an open-ended article.  Twitter fkn rules:

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2013/1/4/3835902/mlb-greatest-leadoff-hitters-rickey-henderson-tim-raines-craig-biggio