History of RBI

[ultimate7]

I don't know if you are referring to only NES, but I could swear some PC games before 1987 had real players/teams.

[Gantry]

They must have, I used to play Micro League Baseball and I'm pretty sure that was before 1987....

But were these games licensed through the MLBPA?  I know Peter Lipson told me that the arcade version of RBI wasn't licensed at all, they just put the players in there.  I wonder if that was the case for the other games like Micro League, Tony Larussa, Earl Weaver etc...

[BeefMaster]

Just a thought - I wonder if the reason the arcade game's stats usually don't match any years' real stats (at least, for players that were currently playing) is because they didn't have the license.  Perhaps they thought that fudging the stats would be enough to keep the lawyers away.

I'm not sure what the rules are for players who have retired... some of the NBA Live games have historical players, and I think they work out deals with each player.

[ultimate7]

Just a thought - I wonder if the reason the arcade game's stats usually don't match any years' real stats (at least, for players that were currently playing) is because they didn't have the license.  Perhaps they thought that fudging the stats would be enough to keep the lawyers away.

Certainly some are exact stats (like 1984 Ryne Sandberg)

[Gantry]

From what I remember in Peter's email they pretty much had no rights and didn't really need them.   Not sure what changed in a year between Vs. RBI & RBI, perhaps Nintendo laying the hammer down...

[fathedX]

All Game Guide puts the release of Major League Baseball for the NES at April 1988.  It also has a quick overview that explains the licenses.

http://www.allgame.com/cg/agg.dll?p=agg&SQL=GIH|||||1249

[Gantry]

Good find Fathead and it goes along with exactly what Beefmaster was saying.  A release date of 4/1988 makes it older than RBI.  I have yet to find a definitive release date for RBI but I know it was first unveiled at the Summer 1988 CES (June 1988) and release sometime that year.  So anywhere between 7/1988 and 12/1988 I guess...

[Gantry]

Added a section describing the licenses, critique and criticize:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBI_Baseball

[JoeDirt]

Hey guys, I just wanted to let you know that I sent an email to Peter Lipson just to say that I love his game and thanks for it...Gantry, you're right--he is a super nice guy.

I did throw in there the question of the unknown variables in regard to pitcher's abilities determinates.  This was his response:

"you're right- I've forgotten a lot. I really don't remember the stats at  all. If I have the code around, I'll take a look (don't expect to hear  soon, though!)  I suppose you're looking at a rom disassembly?  If I recall, the pitchers each had a 'special' ability, which could be knuckleball,  screwball (curve the other direction) and maybe another;
all had the fastball/curve/changeup too. There might have been a variability factor as well as a maximum. "

Also, he made mention of a "classics game convention" every year in San Jose...anybody know what this is all about?

[fightonusc]

I'm assuming that he is referencing the Classic Gaming Expo. It looks pretty interesting, especially for some of the more gaming and ROM knowledgable amongst us (i.e. not me). But if I'm moved to the Bay Area then, I might go (it's only $20-30 to get in).

[TempoGL]

Correct.  MLBPA handles all player rights, while MLB is responsible for licensing team logos and nicknames.  As far as I know, the first game to actually get both MLB and MLBPA licenses was the first Griffey game on the N64, unless Tecmo Super Baseball on the SNES had them.  It's now standard to get both licenses, but it used to be pretty rare.

I believe that World Series Baseball on Genesis was actually the first game to have MLB and MLBPA rights.  Not sure if Tecmo baseball on SNES did, although I heard that game sucked.

I believe the first game in any sport to have both league and players' association licenses was Tecmo Super Bowl.  The original Tecmo Bowl didn't have an NFL license, which is why the teams have weird logos, and I'm not sure any NBA games existed at that time.

Also on Genesis, I believe the first John Madden football and certaintly "Lakers vs Celtics and the NBA Playoffs" had both real teams and real players.  Those both came out in late 1989/early 1990.

[BeefMaster]

I thought the early Madden games just had player numbers, not names.  They were based on real players, but they weren't actually them.  I know my copy of Madden '95 is that way.

You heard correctly about Tecmo Super Baseball - I got it with my SNES, and it is probably the worst baseball game I have ever played.  I completely forgot about "Lakers Vs. Celtics" - the first NBA basketball game I ever played was "Bulls Vs. Blazers" on the SNES, although I knew that "Bulls Vs. Lakers" existed on the Genesis.

[TempoGL]

you might be right about madden, but i can say with absolute certainty that lakers vs. celtics had real players.

[Gantry]

Does anyone know which game after RBI was the first to get an MLBPA license?  That is probably a good one for the wikipedia...

[TempoGL]

maybe Sports Talk Baseball for genesis?

[Gantry]

No NES game had real players but the RBI series?  

[BeefMaster]

No NES game had real players but the RBI series?  

Not that I know of.  Can anyone come up with a list baseball games and whether they had real players/teams?  Here's what I can think of off the top of my head:

RBI (3 games): MLBPA
Bases Loaded (4 games): None
Baseball Stars (2 games): None
Baseball: None
Major League Baseball: MLB
Bo Jackson Baseball: None, that I recall; Bo was in the game, though
Baseball Simulator 1.000: None

I seem to recall Roger Clemens Baseball being released on the NES, but I only played it on the SNES, so I'm not sure, and I don't recall whether it had real players.

[Gantry]

Was Tecmo Baseball a NES game?  The Tecmo series typically had real players...

[ultimate7]

Tecmo baseball did not have real players, and if I remember correctly, it was horrible.

[TempoGL]

Tecmo baseball did not have real players, and if I remember correctly, it was horrible.

It was good.  It was miles better than the game play of the first Bases Loaded, Baseball (vomit), or Major League Baseball.  I believe that RBI, Baseball Stars, and Baseball Simulator 1.000 are the only NES baseball games better than Tecmo Baseball.  I also got the game as a present on my 8th birthday.