Best pitcher in RBI, period (NES)

[fightonusc]

Definitely Tudor for me, although Krukow is a fairly close second. Still (and maybe this is psychological as much as anything), Tudor never gives me a bad start. Never.

[Stock]

Definitely Tudor for me, although Krukow is a fairly close second. Still (and maybe this is psychological as much as anything), Tudor never gives me a bad start. Never.

I will give you that Tudor is solid for 3 innings.  He just tires (like Krokow) too fast.  And if I were only going to use Nolan for 3 innings, he would be much better than Tudor.
I seemed to put a little more weight on stamina when ranking the pitchers.
Whenever I play ATG, we usually play 3-4 game series, where you can only use 1 starter a game.  In this case, you want a pitcher that can be solid for 5 innings.  I just don't feel Todor can be solid for 5 innings.

[JoeDirt]

I change my mind--I agree Tudor is the best.  He's just easy to forget because he's not on a "winning team."

FWIW, I don't think Tudor has a tiring problem at all.  I think he can pitch a solid 6 innings almost every time out.

[Briznock]

John Tudor is fucking nasty.  He has just the right combo of curve and speed for my style.  I rarely give up more than a couple runs with him, if any.  We play curve style, or should I say used to play curve style, and I always seemed to milk him into the 7th or later.  Sometimes if I had a lead Id put him on probation and make it through 7 or even 8.  He is just awesome.

[fknmclane]

I'm sure I've done a write-up (probably a couple) somewhere in my dee nee career...but I'll give justification for him being the best pitcher in the game yet again:

The guy has great ball movement.  He's one of the few pitchers in the game that can pull off the double curve, where the ball is moved one way and then brought another way.  While this should be used rarely, it is sometimes an effective strategy.

Tudor's drop pitch is nasty.  He consistently puts that fucker on the plate.

As far as his fastball goes, it may not be totally overpowering, but it has just enough to be a surprise, especially when jamming a hitter.

I've never had a problem with Tudor's stamina, as he regularly takes the ball into the 7th and 8th and will even throw a complete game.

In summation, John Tudor is the fucking man.  He's my favorite pitcher, hands down, in either style of play.  Great movement, great drop pitch, just enough on the fastball and can take the ball late into the game.  Can't ask for much more.

And it helps that he's a lefty.

[RedBarron]

mike scott. . .because he cheats.

[Bonny]

Nolan, because.

[PHole717]

Valenzuela has a great curve ball and has always done well for me. Plus he can do anything he wants, so its obvious that my vote goes to him. =D

[Stock]

Tudor's drop pitch is nasty.  He consistently puts that fucker on the plate.

He has a below average sinker rating (4), so not sure how you are able to hit the plate with him consistently.  Also, his sinker is so slow (40 points slower than his normal pitch), that even I can lay off of it (and I swing at everything).

As far as his fastball goes, it may not be totally overpowering, but it has just enough to be a surprise, especially when jamming a hitter.

This is probably the thing I hate most about Tudor.  There is only a 9 point pitch speed rating b/w his fast and curve ball.  Compare this to Nolan who has a 29 point differential (and Nolans Curve pitch is only 5 points slower than Tudors fastball).

I've never had a problem with Tudor's stamina, as he regularly takes the ball into the 7th and 8th and will even throw a complete game.

Not sure how you cannot have problems w/ his stamina.  He is tied for the lowest stamina ranking among starters.  Nolan and Mike Scott have 25% more stamina, while Blyleven has 35% more stamina.  To take the ball into the 7th with Tudor, you would have to throw less than 7 pitches for the first 6 innings (assuming you never throw a fastball or sinker), just to get him to the seventh with no stamina left.

And it helps that he's a lefty.

I will give you that.  He is, indeed, a lefty.

[fknmclane]

Well, you pretty much negated everything I said, so I'll admit that I have a man crush on stupid, sexy, lefty Johnny Tudor.

[Stock]

Well, you pretty much negated everything I said, so I'll admit that I have a man crush on stupid, sexy, lefty Johnny Tudor.

I was hoping for a better debate  . 
I am biased toward Nolan myself.  Although, I will always think he is the best, I can understand why some voted for Blyleven.

[Attezzobal]

Stock, I definitely see your reasoning for taking Nolan over Tudor, but I think that's mainly based on style of play since you're a straight pitch guy.

In anything goes, Tudor absolutely rocks, it's his curve that seperates him, and you rarely need to throw slow or fast pitches in order to strike guys out, so that argument doesn't really come into play. All I know is, if I'm SL and someone else is Bo, Tudor keeps me in the game, and I've always got a 50% chance to beat Bo, because all it'll take is a run or two.

[ultimate7]

Tudor may be the best pitcher against Boston, but I don't think that makes him the best pitcher in the game,  I really believe as an ATG players that Tudor is at best the 5th best pitcher.

[Stock]

Stock, I definitely see your reasoning for taking Nolan over Tudor, but I think that's mainly based on style of play since you're a straight pitch guy.

In anything goes, Tudor absolutely rocks, it's his curve that seperates him, and you rarely need to throw slow or fast pitches in order to strike guys out, so that argument doesn't really come into play. All I know is, if I'm SL and someone else is Bo, Tudor keeps me in the game, and I've always got a 50% chance to beat Bo, because all it'll take is a run or two.

I based my decision solely on ATG style play.
The way I play str8 pitch is "batting practice" style (why play str8 pitch if you are still trying to get a K?) so the pitcher does not matter at all.

[Stock]

Tudor may be the best pitcher against Boston, but I don't think that makes him the best pitcher in the game,  I really believe as an ATG players that Tudor is at best the 5th best pitcher.

I agree.  For me Tudor is a toss up at the 5th spot with Gooden.  I give Gooden the slightes edge due to his much better sinker and 20% higher stamina ranking.  All of his pitches are faster too.

[JoeDirt]

I can give you a good debate on the greatness that is John Tudor.  He does last well into the 7th very often because:

1) Like you said, there's only a 9 point difference between his fastball and his regular pitch--so effectively, his regular pitch is almost as good as his fastball--so no need to throw it.

2) He has enough movement on his pitches (both ways) that he can pick the corner of the corners as well as anybody in the game.  This greatly encourages a) pitcher's counts, and/or b) poorly hit balls.

3) Even after Tudor starts eating into his stamina rating, he still has good movement on his pitches.  I understand that he would have to average 7 pitches per inning to get into the 7th inning, but you are assuming once he "uses up" his stamina rating, he's done.  This just isn't the case.  He's still highly effective.

4) He's lefty--meaning more batters have mismatch than don't.

It should be noted that the above points are for ATG only.  I doubt Tudor is much of anything in STR8.

[fknmclane]

I can give you a good debate on the greatness that is John Tudor. He does last well into the 7th very often because:

1) Like you said, there's only a 9 point difference between his fastball and his regular pitch--so effectively, his regular pitch is almost as good as his fastball--so no need to throw it.

2) He has enough movement on his pitches (both ways) that he can pick the corner of the corners as well as anybody in the game. This greatly encourages a) pitcher's counts, and/or b) poorly hit balls.

3) Even after Tudor starts eating into his stamina rating, he still has good movement on his pitches. I understand that he would have to average 7 pitches per inning to get into the 7th inning, but you are assuming once he "uses up" his stamina rating, he's done. This just isn't the case. He's still highly effective.

4) He's lefty--meaning more batters have mismatch than don't.

It should be noted that the above points are for ATG only. I doubt Tudor is much of anything in STR8.

How you like me now, Stock?! 

[JoeDirt]

cheater

[ultimate7]

#1)  This doesn't mean much because his curve is still slower than some other's curve, so you never have to throw fast ball with them

#2) Other pitchers have enough movement (both ways) some even have more

#3) Also true with others that have enough movement

#4) True, he is one of the top 2 lefties, and if you are facing a RH dominated Batting order, this may be a big enough advantage.

[Gantry]

From what I see, Tudor has above-average abilities and being left-handed is his biggest asset.  Considering the lefty-to-righty ratio, I would consider that very imporant...

Plus what mclane said..