Help Jim Rice get in the Hall of Fame

[japetus462]

Hey guys, if you go to www.mlb.com you can vote to put Jim Rice on the ballot for the HoF. Let's put Mr. RBI where he belongs!!

[dvldog]

"In order for a player to get elected to the Hall of Fame, he must obtain votes on at least 75 percent of ballots cast from the BBWAA (Baseball Writers' Association of America). Candidates may remain on the ballot for a maximum of 15 years. A candidate must obtain votes on at least 5 percent of ballots cast to remain on the ballot.

Our voting will end Jan. 5, one day before the actual Hall of Fame ballot results are announced. At that time, we'll announce who our fans would have elected and compare it to the actual BBWAA vote."


This text from the website - Your vote does not put Rice into the Hall of Fame.  It's a poll - nice try.

Good initiative, bad judgement.

[Gantry]

dvldog - Sorry to hijack the thread, but can you give me the thread where you have the complete all-time teams as voted by the forum members?  Couldn't find it and want to put it up on the website...

I'll use PMs in the future if you pay attention to them...

[dvldog]

I think this is a dead thread anyway... (no offense to the thread's author)

http://forums.dee-nee.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=1131;start=msg10802#msg10802

First Team
C - Matt Nokes
1B - Darrell Evans  
2B - Lou Whitaker  
SS - Alan Trammell  
3B - Gary Gaetti  
LF - Kirk Gibson  
CF - Chili Davis  
RF - Reggie Jackson

PH 1 - Ruppert Jones  
PH 2 - Ellis (Tim) Burks  
PH 3 - Tony Armas  
PH 4 - Pat Sheridan  

SP 1 - Doc Gooden  
SP 2 - Nolan Ryan  
RP 1 - Jesse Orosco  
RP 2 - Juan Berenguer  


Second Team - Basically shit players, but some gems
C - Gary Carter  
1B - Will Clark  
2B - Tommy Herr  
SS - Ozzie Smith
3B - Doug DeCinces  
LF - Jim Rice  
CF - Chet Lemon  
RF - Darryl Strawberry    

PH 1 - Harry Spilman    
PH 2 - Lindeman  
PH 3 - Danny Heep    
PH 4 - Bill Madlock  

SP 1 - Roger Clemens    
SP 2 - Krukow    
RP 1 - Hernandez    
RP 2 - Scott Garrelts    

[dvldog]

Japetus, I don't think the Hall of Fame has become what it intended to be.  In hindsight, the lives of Ty Cobb, Cap Anson, and Babe Ruth were not so virtuous.  The issue about Pete Rose puts another blemish on the validity of a Hall of "Fame" - Jim Rice is one of the greatest Red Sox players in history, so I think the Hall of Fame is a bit of a wasteland.

If you want to represent baseball's true history, include Sockalexis and Fleetwood Walker.  Their names are important to the history of the game... they don't have the statistics or success though - Jim Rice had success, as did Pete Rose.  So what the hell does the Hall of Fame stand for, anyway?  Shit, I think it's a place where people who know nothing about the game, may go to provide themselves with a superficial overview of the main characters of a story that is based on more than mere persons.  It is a story than begins with people - So, the Royal Rooters should be in the Hall of Fame; the whole Negro League should be in the Hall of Fame; Eras should grace the sacred walls of Cooperstown rather than the faces of men.  Men have not defined baseball, but their actions HAVE.  Those actions are a collective will of a group in a period of time... So, I really don't give a shit if they put Eddie Gaedel in the Hall of Fame.

If Jim Rice isn't in it, it doesn't mean shit to me anyway.

[dvldog]

As far as what is was intended to be... well its intention was to make money.

It was one of the gimmicks baseball provided during the Great Depression... so was the All-Star game.

They did well, but they became more than what they were intended to be.

[Gantry]

First team has been added to the rankings page:

http://dee-nee.com/rbi/rankings.shtml

[japetus462]

J.Rice, looks like your right. Well, let's hope someday, J Rice makes it into the HoF.

[dvldog]

Way to raise awareness though... props

[doveRBI]

Did I read correctly between the lines to see that you were implying that Jim Rice somehow is judged to have lived more virtously than Cobb, Ruth, or Rose.  If this was your implication I must disagree citing my oft commentary on Rice's legendary collection of pornography.

[dvldog]

nope, you mis-read; there is no trail of logic there, and you apparantly created one

[dvldog]

the simple explanation:

the standards are so vague that it is a travesty to exclude Jim Rice, when he was obviously dominant

Cobb is more widely known for being a racist than his actual accomplishments - the hall is all screwed up, so none of it matters

[MarquisEXB]

If we voted everyone in that was a better human than Ty Cobb, then the HOF would takeover most of the state of NY.

Personally I'm not convinced either way that Rice belongs.

Mike

[dvldog]

Cobb is kinda lacking in the "integrity, sportsmanship, character" requirements - which brings up the Rose issue again.  The only difference is the technicality of a rule that evolved from an attempt to get players to play for free.

Cooperstown is the disneyworld of baseball - they still believe doubleday invented the game and that spalding should have won the Spalding Chadwick debate.  

The bottom line is that Rice was a dominant player in his era - Hall of Fame.

[Reds]

Hey I love Jim Rice, but being a "dominant" player is s shit argument for being in the HOF.  Hell,   Rice is a pretty much Andres Galarraga.  I mean There are plenty of guys who were by far the best at their position for years upon years, but arent HOF'ers.  Same with Sandberg....and I think Sandberg deserves to be in.  Everyone says he was the best 2nd baseman of his time...well Dave Concepcion went to 9 allstar games in a decade and compares numbers-wise with some of the best Shortstops to ever play the game...but he is not in the Hall of Fame...and he was a part of one of if not THE best team to ever step foot on a MLB field...

Again....Change your argument, because being the best at a position, or dominant, that doesnt cut the mustard...

[Glassjoe]

i think dominance in relation to era and/or position is exactly one of the main criteria used in deciding who makes it to the hall...obviously, career numbers in relation to the sport's history is way up there (500 hrs, for example), but era/position qualifiers are way up there.

I think that's widely accepted in the baseball world.

[doveRBI]

Calling Rice the Big Cat was a classic move.  All I know if Rice gets in but no Bob Horner then I am pissed.

[dvldog]

Hey I love Jim Rice, but being a "dominant" player is s shit argument for being in the HOF.

That is the most prevalent criteria for being elected.  Because statistics are skewed in reference to a player's era (eg. 500 home runs by Mickey Mantle is more significant that 500 home runs by Eddie Murray), a player is measured in the context of his ability to dominate his position in his era.  You gotta give Rice that...

PLUS, the main reason he brings so much support is because he is one of the most popular all-time player for one of the most popular teams in history - the Red Sox have a rich tradition, and Rice is a big part of it.  I think that should be noted; even though it tends to refute my argument a little, it would be irrational to leave that thought out just because it doesn't help my argument.

Rice is making news because he is a famous Red Sox player, but I think he was dominant in the context of 70s and 80s outfielders as well - defensively sound, he had 20+ assists one year too.


Calling someone's argument "shit" might be too harsh, especially when their logic is more sound than yours.  You might get your head out of your ass before you post again - that is all in fun of course; I am assuming that this banter is not intended to be hurtful, so don't take that personal (notice the smiley face) - I am guessing that this is half reasonable argument, half shit-talking... so I'll play along this time... in fun of course.  

[dvldog]

Again....Change your argument, because being the best at a position, or dominant, that doesnt cut the mustard...

That's what the Hall of Fame bases their decision on... It's not my argument; I think I will stick with it.

Nice reference to Galaraga.

[dvldog]

Again, good comparison with Gallaraga.

He's more statistically comparable (baseball-reference.com) with Orlando Cepeda, though.

Gallaraga lacked the consistency in All-Star appearances and never won an MVP (also was not as consistently high as Rice in the voting).  Those are dominance statistics.

Rice has 1 more all-star appearance than Cepeda, and 3 more than the Big Cat.

Rice finished in the top 3 in MVP voting 3 times; Cepeda, 2 times; Big Cat, never.

Of the three, I think Rice is the most consistent; the best.